16-year-old driver who killed cyclist was speeding & using social media

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Why go after "big tech" but not "big auto"? It would make things even safer if cars were restricted from going over 25 mph. There are fewer auto deaths now than there were 40 years ago, before anyone had a cell phone. Cell phones don't make people speed, and speed is the biggest risk factor in driving.

Because Big Auto has shaped our cities and towns and has made driving an essential part of American life.

For anyone who hasn't read it, this article does a great job highlighting the changing attitudes towards cars from 1910 and onward. E.g. "jaywalking" was a term coined by the auto industry:

“Drivers first used the word ‘jaywalker’ to criticize pedestrians,” says Norton, “and eventually, it became an organized campaign by auto dealers and auto clubs to change attitudes about walking in the street wherever you wanted to. They had people dressed up like idiots with sandwich board signs that said ‘jaywalker’ or men wearing women’s dresses pretending to be jaywalkers. They even had a parade where a clown was hit by a Model T over and over again in front of the crowd. Of course, the message was that you’re stupid if you walk in the street.” Eventually, cities began adopting laws against jaywalking of their own accord.

https://www.collectorsweekly.com/art...rder-machines/

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by azrider

I disagree with your argument about speed being biggest risk factor...I think distraction is WAY more dangerous than speed. But that's just my opinion.

They're not independent, the faster the car is driving, the less time a driver has to react, amplifying the effects of even minor distractions. But most importantly, speed is what makes cars dangerous. A collision with a car traveling at 10mph is rarely fatal. A collision with a car traveling at 70 mph is often fatal. A distracted person on a cell phone not driving a car is almost never fatal. Slowing down saves lives.

[foggypeake]

The real problem is that big tech has the money to defeat any limitation on phone use in cars. Big auto is complicit in this as well.

Here in Maryland there are laws that require a hands-free device while driving, but everyday I see multitudes of people looking at their phone while trying to drive.

Until we enforce the laws that we have on the books, this event will be repeated. Our representatives are more responsive to the money provided by big tech than the lives of their constituents.

[ojingoh]

Originally Posted by azrider

The new thing I've seen lately is people FaceTiming while driving. WHAT ?!?!

Here in Seattle I see this all the time. Infuriating. I shine my strobe front light off their rear view mirror at them. It's crazy, i can see it flashing on their face, they don't even notice it.

[reuben]

We all do dumb things, especially at that age.

But no, it's not an accident.

[Black Dog]

Time to criminalize deadly behaviour like this. It's a start and part of a broader set of things need to move the dial. Crazy how we do this for Impaired driving but not other distracting activities that are now more deadly. Still this is part of an even larger problem...the addiction to these devices.

[jb_11]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

The big tech firms believe the solution is self-driving cars. Unfortunately, the technology that is drawing the drivers attention away from the road is advancing faster than the technology that would allow the driver not to have to pay attention to the road.

This is why big tech firms are investing / developing autonomous vehicles. Safety may be part of it, and certainly what is promoted, but it's as much a play to get more of your time to use their services.

As to this unfortunate event and the OP's call for 18yo minimum driving ages, it will be interesting to see if she's tried as an adult.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Will there ever be self-driving brodozers with push-button coal-rolling capability?

It wouldn't sell - that would take all of the fun out of it. (sarcasm off)

[flying]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

What about passengers in cars, buses, and trains? You can't ban them from using their mobile devices.

It is not unlike banning them on flights

We all survive & we take long international flights
Although I see now they do allow some forms of internet on parts of the flight...If such non cellular coverage exists

In any case...yes sometimes its a conundrum

[merlinmurph]

Originally Posted by makoti

Why not? People survived years without them.

Really? That's your argument? It's a weak solution and one not especially thought thru. Disabling phones would be an action that ignores a multitude of situations.

- people commute in trains/busses/etc and can get a lot done during their commute
- people taking long trips in trains, etc
- passengers in cars
- you're assuming GPS is on. I rarely have mine on, only when I need it.

In addition, the screens in cars now are as bad as phones, if not worse. I can just see a day sometime in the very near future where those screens will have all the functionality of a phone. Facebook on the car screen. Now what do you do? Ugly, huh? You bet.

In the past when this was brought up, the response was usually something like yours. Well, it's not 1960 anymore, times change.

I wish I had an answer. This is a bike forum, I ride on the road regularly, and these deaths irritate and anger me as much as anybody. However, making knee-jerk responses like disabling phones reminds me of politicians doing the same thing in response to the latest tragedy.

The best solution I can think of is enforcement. The USA is especially lax when it comes to enforcing laws regarding driving, along with punishment. I think we've all heard stories on how Euro countries are much more strict and the punishments are harsh. I'd like to see that here. That would be a cultural change in which I have little faith in happening. This kid will get a slap on the wrist, enabling others to continue their bad habits.

[9tubes]

Originally Posted by Red Tornado

This is the reason I quit road cycling. No amount of hi-vis kit or strobe lights will help with the driver's eyes glued to the phone or screen in dash. They may see you eventually, but not always in time. Off road, I can determine the amount of risk I want to take. Not leaving that choice to distracted drivers.

Another sad story. Feel bad for the cyclists family/friends. A needless death for sure.

I see more and more drivers doing what I call Driving by Braille. They assume that if they can't hear the tires on the Botts Dots then they're OK to have their attention on their phone / the dash / the conversation with the kid in the back seat. Their tires may be in their lane but the body of the car and the mirrors are a foot into my lane. Then I think about the roads with a three foot shoulder for cyclists and no Botts Dots.

I listened to a conversation between two people talking about shopping for cars. Both agreed they really liked the lane departure warning features on newer cars. I was thinking "***, how much time do you spend not looking at the road?" And both of them were cyclists.

[ripvanrando]

The solution is enforcement of the law. Do we have any Europeans on the board? Do germans drink and drive? Do they use their phones while driving? The penalties are really, really steep over there.

When I used to work, I often commuted in my lifted Land Cruiser. In my guesstimation, over 50% of drivers in rush hour use their phones when driving to text, check email, do something online, etc. I was high enough to be able to see the phone in someone's lap and the driver banging away.

I don't believe there is any enforcement. And, even when they kill us, the price they pay is nothing.

[s4life]

This chart is telling. Smart phone use is definitely the main driver.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by s4life

This chart is telling. Smart phone use is definitely the main driver.

And I wouldn't be surprised if it is a combination of drivers looking at their phones instead of the roads, and pedestrians with their heads down looking at their phones as they step onto busy streets.

[m_sasso]

Originally Posted by foggypeake

The real problem is that big tech has the money to defeat any limitation on phone use in cars. Big auto is complicit in this as well.

Here in Maryland there are laws that require a hands-free device while driving, but everyday I see multitudes of people looking at their phone while trying to drive.

Until we enforce the laws that we have on the books, this event will be repeated. Our representatives are more responsive to the money provided by big tech than the lives of their constituents.

Aggressive enforcement of common sense laws is hardly the answer, there will always be law breakers. Investment in driver education, changes in attitudes, a process of ensuring compliance and support from well before youngsters start to even thinking about driving needs to happen or the slaughter will continue. The police and the courts are currently way overburdened with attempting to enforce nonsense laws that should never be laws in the first place. Tell me about how the aggressive law enforcement war on drugs is going? Seems to still be a large population buying and selling drugs.