Custom Frames and New Builders

[Red Tornado]

"Because I can".... was the reply when one of my buddies with lots of disposable income (DINK) was asked by another friend why he spent so much on custom-built bikes, so often. Not trying to generalize, but that may be one of the main factors for lots of folk. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[DuddyJ]

For those of us that would need $100,000+ for a housing down payment AND will be renting for the next 10 years, what are some good up and coming frame builders to send our money too?

[Mark McM]

Why buy a bike that costs as much as a house, when you can spend the same money for a bike that is a house?

[cmg]

$14,400 for a custom bike? why? I've had so far 3 custom frames. Buy just the frame and fork and i'll get everything else done. ebay has lots of parts. it'll be lots cheaper, $3000-$4200 and lowers the risk and loss if it doesn't work out.

[cinco]

Originally Posted by DuddyJ

For those of us that would need $100,000+ for a housing down payment AND will be renting for the next 10 years, what are some good up and coming frame builders to send our money too?

Friend in Houston, Matt Schott of Schott Cycles. Been doing it for a while. Hot Tubes doing the painting.
https://www.schottcycles.com/

[David Tollefson]

As one who still considers himself a "new" builder, I find this a very interesting discussion. I see many posts here and elsewhere on many subjects basically saying one won't do business with anyone who doesn't have loads of positive history (eBay is an example). And I always wonder "where does that leave the new builder?" Do we have to wait until the old guard dies off to have a chance? (Hm... Maybe I need to branch out to contract killing... jk!)

Fortunately I'm not in a position where my livelihood depends on selling X framesets in a month.

[m4rk540]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

what exactly do you mean by klunker realistically? bicycle frames are brutally simple, mechanically speaking. unless it fails at a weld, or isnt aligned properly, etc - it's pretty hard to make a bad bike frame, no? curious what makes you say your pals bike is a "klunker".



The price is a good point of discussion. I assume, either you have incredibly low "house payments" or you're just embellishing with this statement, but i do firmly believe that the new guys to the scene should cost less.

there are a handful of frame builders who have spotless reputations and have literally been building bikes for multiple decades. their price list reflects those years of experience and credibility.

one reason someone might select a newish builder is their price for a frame can be significantly cheaper, less than half, of the major established players.

local racing and participation in events is another reason someone might feel comfortable buying a frame from a new builder. if joe fbuild is supporting local cyclocross racers and they are beating the crap out of his frames weekly racing cross, i feel confident that he knows how to build a bike that can take some abuse and be OK.

those are two examples off the top of my hed, but i do believe it comes down to a relationship with the builder in most cases as mentioned above. as i opined, a bicycle frame is a super simple mechanical structure; if, for whatever various reasons, you establish some level of trust with the guy holding the torch, i dont think it's too hugh a leap of faith to think you'll get a decent bike.

Excluding the coasts and Texas, I was thinking that many parts of the country still have low housing costs. Say an $800 month mortgage.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...76_rect/10_zm/

As for klunker, I wasn't referring to the historical type but the bikes that Ultra Romance rides which get a ton of attention on the Radavist.

https://velo-orange.com/pages/piolet...th-27-5-wheels

My friend's bike was about 7 grand.

[MattTuck]

For good or bad, I see builders taking 3 approaches. Note that they are not mutually exclusive. But it is rare to see all 3.

1. Building quality bikes consistently, and developing a reputation for honest and consistent work. Extreme focus on the product itself.

2. Hit the social media game hard, build a hype around the brand, and bring in deposits that way. Extreme focus on the brand itself.

3. Price your product at a very attractive (I won't say "too good to be true....", but close to it) level. Extreme focus on getting customers.


Dave, I don't know much about you or your bikes, so take this only as a single data point. Mjolnir seems a little hard to pronounce. There is some research out there (that I may be misquoting) that suggests hard to pronounce names are not as trustworthy and/or memorable. It was cited in a book called "Thinking Fast and Slow", if you are interested.

On the broader point, about new builders... to each his own. The list of builders that I'd trust with my money is less than 10, and generated by years of reading this forum and listening to people's experiences with builders, seeing their products and knowing that they are good at.

[zambenini]

Originally Posted by m4rk540

Excluding the coasts and Texas, I was thinking that many parts of the country still have low housing costs. Say an $800 month mortgage.



https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...76_rect/10_zm/



As for klunker, I wasn't referring to the historical type but the bikes that Ultra Romance rides which get a ton of attention on the Radavist.



https://velo-orange.com/pages/piolet...th-27-5-wheels



My friend's bike was about 7 grand.

Whoa, OK $7G is a lot. https://youtu.be/YJt0E4MiO6E

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[jtbadge]

My handbuilt custom frame cost less than one month's rent?

[buddybikes]

Many ways to get started as builder, one is across the hall in the Friday Night Lights which only builders can submit pictures. Another, advertise here, sure Paceline isn't too much.

Looked at your website, had to click a bit to see any pictures, not good, show your wears....

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by David Tollefson

As one who still considers himself a "new" builder, I find this a very interesting discussion. I see many posts here and elsewhere on many subjects basically saying one won't do business with anyone who doesn't have loads of positive history (eBay is an example). And I always wonder "where does that leave the new builder?" Do we have to wait until the old guard dies off to have a chance? (Hm... Maybe I need to branch out to contract killing... jk!)

Fortunately I'm not in a position where my livelihood depends on selling X framesets in a month.

I think this is an important point. Every builder had to start somewhere. Among the "best regarded" builders out there today, there seems to be a pretty good mix of those who apprenticed in an established operation for a long time, those who were effectively self-taught.

I've bought from a "new builder" at NAHBS. I've also built a handful of frames myself. I think it's important to keep the pipeline flowing, and I would trust many new builders to build a great-fitting, great-performing bike.

In my mind, the biggest risk to a new builder is financial. The "business" side of a new business can be tough, and if a builder is tight on cash, it may compromise the product. Thus, the buyer can get a little extra piece of mind if the builder is either well-capitalized or has an alternative source of income.

[m4rk540]

Originally Posted by happycampyer

Not sure what special demarcation Serotta’s closing has to do with this question.

Serotta was kind of the gold standard. And its gravitational pull brought many into the bespoke orbit. Without Serotta and this forum, most of the people I know on custom bikes would be riding Giants. But that was pre-Instagram and pre-Radavist.

[colker]

Originally Posted by m4rk540

Serotta was kind of the gold standard. And it's gravitational pull brought many into the bespoke orbit. Without Serotta and this forum, most of the people I know on custom bikes would be riding Giants. But that was pre-Instagram and pre-Radavist.

Is The Radavist that popular?

[Bentley]

Originally Posted by David Tollefson

As one who still considers himself a "new" builder, I find this a very interesting discussion. I see many posts here and elsewhere on many subjects basically saying one won't do business with anyone who doesn't have loads of positive history (eBay is an example). And I always wonder "where does that leave the new builder?" Do we have to wait until the old guard dies off to have a chance? (Hm... Maybe I need to branch out to contract killing... jk!)

Fortunately I'm not in a position where my livelihood depends on selling X framesets in a month.

I hope this thread is not discouraging. My view, it’s about workmanship and the person to person relationship. I’ve seen your bikes and they are very cool.

Spending 14K on a custom seems like a stretch but who really knows. If you got it and you want the bike then more power to you.

Selling a bike for 14K does in no way imply that it’s worth it.

Best

Ray