Hi Cadence Never Worked for Me

[dnc]

Originally Posted by nooneline

But I also think that the element that's missing from the study in the OP (as well as a few related ones that I dug up) is what happens when fatigue is introduced. Low cadence, high force (aka muscular power production) is more fatiguing - this power-production system can't last as long as the aerobic one, which kicks in under lower force, higher cadence. Low cadence might be more efficient initially, but cycling isn't only about efficiency.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hh2DcgpnkU
That high gear TT rider had no problem with muscle fatigue, he adapted the strongest and most fatigue resistant muscle in the lower body with up to 100 % slow twitch fibers for use in his technique around TDC and down towards 2 o'c. The soleus and its powerful plantar flexion force gave him additional maximal torque in this sector. All other cyclists leave it lying idle.

[Mzilliox]

Originally Posted by msl819

I am on a Kickr so it coupled with Zwift doing a workout, I am not even changing gears. I am sure there will some readjusting to the great outdoors. Spinning up some of our hills at 90 plus rpms at say 225 watts won’t cut it, I would fall over I’d go so slow. I have enjoyed the cadence as well. I can be too much of a masher being a bigger guy so spinning I feel has helped my cardio vascular endurance more than I expected.

I will say though... my avatar can be a bit of a jerk as he randomly swerves into oncoming riders for no reason!

im confused as hell. If i spun 90 rpms at 225 watts uphill id be getting close to beating KOMs here. another guys is talking about 3.9watts per kg, and those are pro numbers... id be unbeatable at 4watts per kg...

you guys are effing strong! i mean im not fast, but im not slow either. if i put out over 3watts per kg im getting PRS and KOMs on all my rides, just sayin.

this leaves me wondering a lot about electronic riding and power meters and things. are we all really using the same metrics?

[makoti]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

im confused as hell. If i spun 90 rpms at 225 watts uphill id be getting close to beating KOMs here. another guys is talking about 3.6watts per kg, and those are pro numbers...

you guys are effing strong! i mean im not fast, but im not slow either. if i put out 3watts per kg im getting PRS and KOMs on all my rides, just sayin.

Yeah, "won't cut it" is very relative. 90rpm @ 225w? I'm bragging.

[Mzilliox]

With Uran’s 63kg weight, his average power-to-weight ratio was 3.8w/kg

this is winning a stage at the tour, 3.8watts per kg averaging a bit over 80rpm.

[redir]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

im confused as hell. If i spun 90 rpms at 225 watts uphill id be getting close to beating KOMs here. another guys is talking about 3.9watts per kg, and those are pro numbers... id be unbeatable at 4watts per kg...

you guys are effing strong! i mean im not fast, but im not slow either. if i put out over 3watts per kg im getting PRS and KOMs on all my rides, just sayin.

this leaves me wondering a lot about electronic riding and power meters and things. are we all really using the same metrics?

I think what he's saying is you can't spin at 90rmp up some of the hills because there simply are no gears to do it. I live in the mountains so I can relate. In zwift I can spin 90rmp up any virtual mountain, on the rollers, but in the real world even my 11x32 is not enough to spin 90 up a cat 1 climb so I put it in my lowest gear and mash, the only thing left to do.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

im confused as hell. If i spun 90 rpms at 225 watts uphill id be getting close to beating KOMs here. another guys is talking about 3.9watts per kg, and those are pro numbers... id be unbeatable at 4watts per kg...

you guys are effing strong! i mean im not fast, but im not slow either. if i put out over 3watts per kg im getting PRS and KOMs on all my rides, just sayin.

this leaves me wondering a lot about electronic riding and power meters and things. are we all really using the same metrics?

main detail left out: for what duration?

4 w/kg for 1 hour is a good amateur; doing it for 3 hours, and one'd be looking at a cat-1

the really impressive stat is not the w/kg for a set duration, but rather how long someone could maintain that effort.

At my best, I could do ~4.6 w/kg for an hour; a pro could do ~6.5 w/kg. So was I 70% as strong as a pro? That would depend on how one defines strong. I could do 6.5 w/kg for maybe 3 minutes max; that pro does it for 60 minutes (20x the duration).

A sort-of unrelated analogy would be comparing 97% purity to 99.5% purity. On the face of it, the 97% if 97.5% the way there to the 99.5%, but if one's measure purity, the 97% contains 6x the amount of contaminant in the 99.5%.

[redir]

From what I understand 4 watts/kg puts you in cat3/2 territory and that's right where I am. Kind of sad, all this modern exercise science. You got your number and that's it buddy no room for improvement When I do pro 1/2 races, or did I should say, I could hang in the field no problem till the end of the race but forget about going off the front or getting in a break. In crits I'd often get dropped because the intensity is just too much, road races are different.

[Mzilliox]

Originally Posted by redir

From what I understand 4 watts/kg puts you in cat3/2 territory and that's right where I am. Kind of sad, all this modern exercise science. You got your number and that's it buddy no room for improvement When I do pro 1/2 races, or did I should say, I could hang in the field no problem till the end of the race but forget about going off the front or getting in a break. In crits I'd often get dropped because the intensity is just too much, road races are different.

that makes sense then, thanks for all the clarification.

[muz]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

you guys are effing strong! i mean im not fast, but im not slow either. if i put out over 3watts per kg im getting PRS and KOMs on all my rides, just sayin.

You should move to the Bay area! I am a decent climber, but my PR's are 50% to 100% higher than the best times in the local climbs. Levi Leipheimer has many of the Sonoma KOMs, but there are climbs where even he is off the top 10!

[marciero]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4557094/

Interesting study I came across while doing some research for a blog posting. The study shows some evidence that high cadence (tandem) cycling can mitigate the effect of Parkinson's.

Worth noting that the study only found statistically significant improvement for the group doing "dynamic" cycling, where "The motor did the majority of the work to turn the pedals but individuals were encouraged to push on the pedals and to not be passive." But no improvement for the "static" cycling, where
" individuals cycled on the instrumented bike, at a self-selected speed, without the motor assist."

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

this.

being comfortable riding between 60-110rpm and being able to make power anywhere in that range is what high cadence/leg speed is all about. and even enormous legs that "shouldn't" spin that fast, can. the ability, for me, came from a few years of really boring leg speed drills, as well as big gear workouts.

that's what you're after - being versatile and able to effectively change gears (within your own body) without diminishing horsepower. leg speed is a good skill to learn for racing. casual riding? maybe not.

it has nothing to do with how many double centuries one has completed. at all.

To further this point, there's a difference between capability and personal preference. If you do the leg speed work, sure, your preference might still be to Jan Ullrich is along at 70 rpm. But having the tool in the toolkit to hit 100-110 with power if the situation needs it is nothing but a benefit.

And yeah, it takes a ton of boring drills to get there. Training the stuff we suck at is always the hardest bit. Who wants to spend precious saddle time working on the things we're terrible at? It's why I still haven't sorted out trackstanding after all these years.

[Mzilliox]

Originally Posted by muz

You should move to the Bay area! I am a decent climber, but my PR's are 50% to 100% higher than the best times in the local climbs. Levi Leipheimer has many of the Sonoma KOMs, but there are climbs where even he is off the top 10!

oh i get it, i rode around Redlands with a buddy, where pros do Redlands classics. i was amazed how far off the KOM times we were from out efforts, haha.
i guess sometimes i forget folks running in cat 1 or 2 would bother chatting on a bike site. silly me

[Mzilliox]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

To further this point, there's a difference between capability and personal preference. If you do the leg speed work, sure, your preference might still be to Jan Ullrich is along at 70 rpm. But having the tool in the toolkit to hit 100-110 with power if the situation needs it is nothing but a benefit.

And yeah, it takes a ton of boring drills to get there. Training the stuff we suck at is always the hardest bit. Who wants to spend precious saddle time working on the things we're terrible at? It's why I still haven't sorted out trackstanding after all these years.

this is why i can climb and not sprint. i can spin, i have really fast legs, ill often have rpm numbers in the 130s, but my torque and overall strength on flats is lame. i have a great little jump, just no actual sprint.

i need to work on power this year, grind them big gears inefficiently!

[smead]

Go fixed, spin like hell and mash up grades all in the same hour, whether you want to or not. I love always being in the right gear.

[laupsi]

Never been naturally strong myself, all gains come through hard work/time. Doing a series of 8 week training sessions through TR, beginning in late Nov., mainly on smart trainer, am 53 years old, been racing/trading since late 20’s, working cadence above 90. Have experienced steady TP improvement this season, about 1.5-2% per every 8 weeks. Last ramp rest, 2 weeks ago at 3.88 W/K. Test consisted of 20’ of work, ave cadence of 95.

I believe it highly improbable that I could ride at that power for 1 hour at any cadence. Says something about my trust in these tests! But also believe my best chance to achieve this power would be to ride at high cadence, rather than 80 or below and I have no problem riding at lower cadences.

Not sure what my point here is cause I know many would say opposite, it simply is what it is, For Me.