Rivendell saved for now...

[colker]

Originally Posted by joosttx

colker said (these are my words) that rivendell deserves to be marketed to the "very very rich" (quotes are his words). I am not sure what very very rich means in Brazil where he is from. But from my advantage point, wealthy folk who want the pastural experience of a bicycle are riding ebike long hauler bikes for going to the grocery store, hauling kids around and general fun and not rivendel-like bikes. Again, I doubt the "very very rich" of New York's boroughs live in a building you are describing (my friends and relatives do) or want to have an about-town-bike that colker thinks. Another reason you his idea is flawed.

I was reading the thread on custom bike builders and it´s being discussed how much the buyers are influenced by instagram hype. Most of consummerism is done on an emotional level.
Everyone here is complaining about Rivendell being expensive. Since pricing down is not their way out.. finding customers who don´t care if it´s 10, 20 or 50% more expensive is their solution.
Rivendell has style and history. They have bicycles which under the right light could be desirable on an emotional level to wealthy comsummers.
It´s either finding a new market or closing doors. The hard core cycling community won´t save them. What´s your take?

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by joosttx

That would suck being “very very rich” living in a 4 story walk up

Well, a very, very rich person from Ashtabula lives in a 4-story walkup in NYC.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by colker

I was reading the thread on custom bike builders and it´s being discussed how much the buyers are influenced by instagram hype. Most of consummerism is done on an emotional level.
Everyone here is complaining about Rivendell being expensive. Since pricing down is not their way out.. finding customers who don´t care if it´s 10, 20 or 50% more expensive is their solution.
Rivendell has style and history. They have bicycles which under the right light could be desirable on an emotional level to wealthy comsummers.
It´s either finding a new market or closing doors. The hard core cycling community won´t save them. What´s your take?

I agree too that Riv had to change but the luxury is a way different mar, one that Riv has no intention of entertaining.

A single frame builder with very few frames going out at very high costs doesn't have all the employees, overhead and accessories that Riv has. As I've posted, Riv has to scale way down and cut staff and product offerings drastically. Reading the blog, he won't go this route.

A brand like Pinarello, bought by LV, has a marketing arm, inventory managers, R&D department... again, that as far away as you can get from Riv will and can do.

I still think he should shrink to just a few employees and three bikes that sell well, cut all the accessories and other stuff and go from there. If they got bought by a business person, that's what they would do. Cut what is a bottom line negative.

Another thing, you know Riv way better than me, to go luxury you have to have a polished web site, social media presence site and a customer interface when contacted. Currently from the blog, "Wool felt over doublestick carpet tape, then twined. Yadda yadda, I know....you've seen this before. I see it every day and still dig it!". His philosophy won't allow an up market pivot and lux customers will be turned off by what they see and read.

[colker]

Originally Posted by Burnette

Another thing, you know Riv way better than me, to go luxury you have to have a polished web site, social media presence site and a customer interface when contacted. Currently from the blog, "Wool felt over doublestick carpet tape, then twined. Yadda yadda, I know....you've seen this before. I see it every day and still dig it!". His philosophy won't allow an up market pivot and lux customers will be turned off by what they see and read.

Agree! GP would have to cut down on the ideology and ramblings if dealing w/ the "republican" side of things. It´s doable.... but there is a price. It´s a bad world out there.

[dancinkozmo]

Originally Posted by Burnette

...
I still think he should shrink to just a few employees and three bikes that sell well, cut all the accessories and other stuff and go from there. ...

sounds a bit like BMC

[sjbraun]

Originally Posted by dancinkozmo

sounds a bit like BMC

That's not a bad observation. One thing I like about Mike at BMC is that he's really into riding and he doesn't much care what you rode or how you do it. He sells products that he thinks work well, (and in my experience, they do.)
GP on the other hand, seems to always be telling me, a spandex wearing, recreational roadie, that I'm doing it wrong because I ride a carbon fiber bike that doesn't have a front basket and I wear cycling shoes.
One approach encourages, the other scolds. Take your pic.
While GP's approach works for some riders, I wonder how many he's alienated with his screeds, err Blahg.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by sjbraun

That's not a bad observation. One thing I like about Mike at BMC is that he's really into riding and he doesn't much care what you rode or how you do it. He sells products that he thinks work well, (and in my experience, they do.)
GP on the other hand, seems to always be telling me, a spandex wearing, recreational roadie, that I'm doing it wrong because I ride a carbon fiber bike that doesn't have a front basket and I wear cycling shoes.
One approach encourages, the other scolds. Take your pic.
While GP's approach works for some riders, I wonder how many he's alienated with his screeds, err Blahg.

You are so right here. You can have a belief and philosophy and practice them without being condescending.

A good example of how to do it right is Tom Ritchey. I don't agree with everything he does and yet would readily buy his product and listen to his thoughts. He's approachable and engaging.

And on the business side he does bikes and accessories in a profitable way.

[CunegoFan]

At this point it is clear that Grant needs to step away and let the employees or someone else make the business decisions. He obviously has no intention of changing to save the company. He is the problem. Forget marketing and product mix and the website. It's him. The guy who starts a company is not necessarily the one who should be running it long term, and it's now years past the time when he should have been eased into a figurehead position.

I cannot get over him putting effort and resources into a new friction shifter while acknowledging it might not sell more than fifty units. I feel bad for the employees working for a leader who puts the pursuit of his personal white whale above their financial security.

[colker]

Schadenfreude. Some kind of satisfaction driven out of your enemy´s misery.
If you don´t like Rivendell why bother about it´s future? Don´t tell me it´s a compassionate love for the employees... please. They are all grown ups and free to work wherever they chose to...
Sure.. it´s GP own fault when he calls for help. It´s a big bad world out there. Never show weakness.
But why feel personally atacked if he goes against a bike fit or frame material? It´s not personal. It´s just another style. It´s good to have diversity in this world. It is good as an alternative way of things to be done. Don´t take it as a comment on you... it´s about the industry.
Kicking him while he is weak is not very noble.

[sjbraun]

Colker, if your post is directed at my last comment, you're reading way too much into what wrote. I don't feel attacked or threatened by GP's beliefs. I just think how he expresses his opinions may not be helping him sell bikes.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by colker

Schadenfreude. Some kind of satisfaction driven out of your enemy´s misery.
If you don´t like Rivendell why bother about it´s future? Don´t tell me it´s a compassionate love for the employees... please. They are all grown ups and free to work wherever they chose to...
Sure.. it´s GP own fault when he calls for help. It´s a big bad world out there. Never show weakness.
But why feel personally atacked if he goes against a bike fit or frame material? It´s not personal. It´s just another style. It´s good to have diversity in this world. It is good as an alternative way of things to be done. Don´t take it as a comment on you... it´s about the industry.
Kicking him while he is weak is not very noble.

I agree, it shouldn't be a personal thing. It's business. But as you say the world, the business world in particular is an unforgiving tough place.

I'm still glass half full here. He seems open to an angel investor, he may be open to good spirited advice too.

To the negative push back:

Some of it does have to go back to GP. If you are radical (as pointed out earlier), if you are condescending, if you freely alienate people and you are stubborn you had better be strong and not need anybody. At all. Because if you do you will receive the treatment you gave by those offended. That's a life lesson right there, especially in business, careful how you treat folks.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by CunegoFan

At this point it is clear that Grant needs to step away and let the employees or someone else make the business decisions. He obviously has no intention of changing to save the company. He is the problem. Forget marketing and product mix and the website. It's him. The guy who starts a company is not necessarily the one who should be running it long term, and it's now years past the time when he should have been eased into a figurehead position.

I cannot get over him putting effort and resources into a new friction shifter while acknowledging it might not sell more than fifty units. I feel bad for the employees working for a leader who puts the pursuit of his personal white whale above their financial security.

Dejavu all over again.

serotta, calfee..both same boat, others(altho with the help of the carbon people at calfee(not craig, he's still afloat but a fraction of what he once was).

[fiamme red]

What would G.P. say now about these bikes?

https://georgebike.blogspot.com/2019...-articles.html

[peanutgallery]

There's only one top tube

Originally Posted by fiamme red

What would G.P. say now about these bikes?

https://georgebike.blogspot.com/2019...-articles.html

[charliedid]

Hard to fit a basket and pedals do not accommodate Crocs.