Ot: tesla May be coming

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by MikeD

I bet there are thousands of people in the Bay Area currently facing poverty because of unreasonable lockdowns ordered by local health administrators (how does one individual have such power in this country) that would gladly take a job at Tesla.

Ok, why 'unreasonable' considering the ease at which this virus is transmitted? AND it's the Governor, with health officials advice, that does this
Another 'let's let this wash over us' to achieve 'herd immunity', screw anybody that's old or vulnerable or just is unlucky enough to get sick.

YES, a balancing act to minimize the deaths that are inevitable but I guess, almost 100,000 is ok with you..maybe 150,000, 400,000, that OK with you too?

Poverty, yes..how about a FDR type package to help those in this pandemic(3 months old, BTW), instead of a grossly overfunded DOD or $ to a stupid wall??

BTW-'How does one individual have such power in this country'????YGBSM..how about the knumbskull in the big chair that ignores science and is just worried about ratings..what's his latest 'executive order' that's based on his wee ego..??

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Ok, why 'unreasonable' considering the ease at which this virus is transmitted? AND it's the Governor, with health officials advice, that does this
Another 'let's let this wash over us' to achieve 'herd immunity', screw anybody that's old or vulnerable or just is unlucky enough to get sick.

YES, a balancing act to minimize the deaths that are inevitable but I guess, almost 100,000 is ok with you..maybe 150,000, 400,000, that OK with you too?

Poverty, yes..how about a FDR type package to help those in this pandemic(3 months old, BTW), instead of a grossly overfunded DOD or $ to a stupid wall??

BTW-'How does one individual have such power in this country'????YGBSM..how about the knumbskull in the big char that ignores science and is just worried about ratings..what's his latest 'executive order' that's based on his wee ego..

Tim

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by mistermo

Anyone who thinks Porsche/Audi or any US car company is close to Tesla is delusional. eTron, iPace, not even close. Jag can't give their cars away.
NOBODY has anywhere close to the same battery range. The Taycan, at SIGNIFICANTLY more money, can only muster ~200 miles range, and good luck getting it charged on the way from LA to Vegas. The new eMustang, not even launched, is also seriously lacking, at more or less the same money. Tesla is a couple yrs away from Gen2 battery tech that will go 400-500 miles. They're already at 300miles, way beyond anyone else.

You can't drive any other eCar on a cross country trip because the charging infrastructure simply does not exist. Tesla, with supercharging stations, has that nailed too. I'm NOT saying no one will ever catch up, but the rest of auto world is a decade behind.

Elon may be a bi-polar twitter douche, but it's a fools errand to think any other car company remotely compares.



I've had 3 Audis and 2 Teslas. There's absolutely no comparison. NONE.
I've not ever, never, had even ONE service issue with Tesla. Just google the service issues with Audi. Audi's service and reliability is historically dreadful. While I loved Audis, they spent more time in the shop than on the road once they hit 60K miles.

This is all correct. Nobody else is really close to Tesla in terms of their battery technology and charging network. It's not perfect and their figurehead/leader/biggest shareholder is quirky (to say the least) but he's also pretty bright and seems to have a vision of the future the other manufacturers are completely missing. Tesla's cars aren't publicity stunts or extreme niches within a niche. With the exception of their solar roof technology, it's all they do. They're all-in on this stuff and their self-driving technology is years ahead of the others. That said I'm still not ready for the car to drive me around by itself.

It's boring and not a halo car, but I've seen a surprisingly high number of positive reviews of the Chevrolet Bolt. I think GM actually did their homework on that one if someone doesn't want an expensive Tesla. And on the other end, the Audi e-Tron is somewhat interesting to me as well if you don't need Tesla's range. That's a car I would lease though. They're part of the VW group (which is a huge company with deep pockets and lots of resources) so all of their cars will share tech. I'm curious about what their Golf-class electric car will be like when it is released.

These are for-profit companies with all that entails, both positive and negative.

[Smitty2k1]

No love for the new Nissan Leaf with 62kwh battery or the new generation of Chevy Bolt for 2020? Those are direct competitors to the Model 3.

As others have said, Audi and Jag have competitors to the Model S/X in the luxury market.

Tesla is an interesting company to be sure and has done some really cool things. Specifically their removal from the traditional dealership network.

Time will tell if the loyal fan base Tesla has will be sustainable in the long term.

[zap]

Originally Posted by mistermo

NOBODY has anywhere close to the same battery range. The Taycan, at SIGNIFICANTLY more money, can only muster ~200 miles range, and good luck getting it charged on the way from LA to Vegas.

In the real world the Porsche is only 10 miles short (per CD) on range. Tesla's range drops when you use a Tesla as one should.....climate system on, radio....
Porsche system also charges faster....if you can find a charger to take advantage of Porsche's superior system. But that will improve with time.

Yes, the Porsche costs a bloody fortune but it is a rocket sled with proper build quality that anyone who likes cars even just a little bit will appreciate.

Google Car and Driver and/or Top Gear for test results.

[mistermo]

Originally Posted by Smitty2k1

No love for the new Nissan Leaf with 62kwh battery or the new generation of Chevy Bolt for 2020? Those are direct competitors to the Model 3.

They simply don't compare. You can't drive any of these from Indianapolis to Chicago, Boston to DC, LA to Vegas, St Louis to KC...you pick it. There's no charging infrastructure along the route, as Tesla has. People drive their Teslas cross country, thanks to Tesla's proprietary charging network. These companies don't have ANY US charging network and, unless you're willing to wait 6-8 hours to charge, every 150 miles, you're not going to leave your city.

Besides the lack of network, these cars have ranges around ~200 miles rather than the ~300 of Tesla. Not saying these companies will never succeed, but they are a decade behind. These companies, are working on Gen2 batteries that may not be as good as Tesla's Gen1. Tesla is a couple years from their Gen2 which will put them even further ahead. The new Tesla Roadster will have a range of 620 miles! The local Jag dealer is offering massive discounts on their iPace. For the price, I would consider a Chevy Bolt, which is a nice car, but it's not comparable to a Tesla in either range, performance or charging network.

[Mike V]

Everyone is a decade behind until pissy pants gets irked and sells it off tomorrow to play with his rockets. Might even be in the works already.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Ok, why 'unreasonable' considering the ease at which this virus is transmitted? AND it's the Governor, with health officials advice, that does this
Another 'let's let this wash over us' to achieve 'herd immunity', screw anybody that's old or vulnerable or just is unlucky enough to get sick.

YES, a balancing act to minimize the deaths that are inevitable but I guess, almost 100,000 is ok with you..maybe 150,000, 400,000, that OK with you too?

Poverty, yes..how about a FDR type package to help those in this pandemic(3 months old, BTW), instead of a grossly overfunded DOD or $ to a stupid wall??

BTW-'How does one individual have such power in this country'????YGBSM..how about the knumbskull in the big chair that ignores science and is just worried about ratings..what's his latest 'executive order' that's based on his wee ego..??

Mods, why do you continue to tolerate political posts from this person?

[akelman]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Bravo to Elon Musk. Tesla should never have been shutdown to begin with as auto manufacturers are considered essential businesses under federal guidelines. He should have sued Alameda County for business losses instead of just for legal fees.

Originally Posted by MikeD

I bet there are thousands of people in the Bay Area currently facing poverty because of unreasonable lockdowns ordered by local health administrators (how does one individual have such power in this country) that would gladly take a job at Tesla.

Originally Posted by MikeD

He probably wants to get out of California, like other rich people are. I can't blame him.

Originally Posted by MikeD

Mods, why do you continue to tolerate political posts from this person?

It truly is a great mystery. If only Leonard Nimoy were still alive, he might be able to get to the bottom of it.

[benb]

Originally Posted by mistermo

They simply don't compare. You can't drive any of these from Indianapolis to Chicago, Boston to DC, LA to Vegas, St Louis to KC...you pick it. There's no charging infrastructure along the route, as Tesla has. People drive their Teslas cross country, thanks to Tesla's proprietary charging network. These companies don't have ANY US charging network and, unless you're willing to wait 6-8 hours to charge, every 150 miles, you're not going to leave your city.

Besides the lack of network, these cars have ranges around ~200 miles rather than the ~300 of Tesla. Not saying these companies will never succeed, but they are a decade behind. These companies, are working on Gen2 batteries that may not be as good as Tesla's Gen1. Tesla is a couple years from their Gen2 which will put them even further ahead. The new Tesla Roadster will have a range of 620 miles! The local Jag dealer is offering massive discounts on their iPace. For the price, I would consider a Chevy Bolt, which is a nice car, but it's not comparable to a Tesla in either range, performance or charging network.

Yah all this talk about other manufacturers is laughable to me having been following this closely for a while. I'm going to end up buying a Tesla at some point unless things change a lot. I drive very little so no intention to actually buy for years still.

The only car that is remotely competitive with Tesla is the Chevy Bolt. But Chevy doesn't really care about the Bolt so it feels like a huge risk. They don't even want to sell it, AFAICT the Bolt was just a political move to earn credits so they can sell more big SUVs.

The Model S tops out at 391mi range now, it has not been a stationary target for Audi/Porsche/VW/Jaguar to try and catch up too. There's a big difference between 200 and close to 400.

We will see where the ID3 comes in, you can't compare the Model 3 vs anything but the Bolt & Leaf really IMO. No sane buyer will actually consider the Audi/Porsche/Jag vs the Bolt/3/Y/Leaf as they're just in two different price ranges. The Audi/Porsche/Jag offerings are for luxury buyers who are biased towards Euro brands.

Porsche is the only company with interesting ideas besides Tesla right now but the price is in the stratosphere and there will be nowhere you can take advantage of its super high charge capabilities. Porsche will never spend the money to build out a big charging infrastructure. They just won't, their EVs will be toys for the rich just like a lot of their ICE vehicles.

Porsche is also the only one of these European companies I'd ever take my chances with in terms of reliability. Even if Tesla is not Toyota I'd still rather take my chances with them. The picture seems muddy with Tesla but they're still EVs with low maintenance. VW/Audi/Jag have never been known for reliability. Any Environmentally conscious buyer should have a heaping dose of skepticism about VW/Audi as well, they have burned a lot of bridges.

[William]

A few of you need to knock it off...OldP, MikeD, akleman, etc... you've been warned before. We'll discuss and see where we go from here.






W.

[William]

Everyone and their mother drives a Tesla in my area. There is even a dealership inside a large local mall. They certainly seem to be way ahead of all the other mfr's right now and probably will continue to for a while.






W.

[benb]

The biggest thing Tesla has going for them is their EVs are not a silly experiment on the side that they're worried about being too successful, they're the core product, the only thing they care about.

Everyone else is kind of dipping their toe into the water and has some weird ulterior motives.

Teslas big threat will come from a new competitor that is 100% Electric like they are, or if one of the big auto companies makes some incredible pivot and actually starts shutting down their ICE production.

Tesla has 100% of their engineers working on EVs, not a side team. All their accounting & financing & product development is based on making the best EVs they can and selling as many as they can.

Everyone else is just doing an experiment and not putting all their resources into play.

[mistermo]

In most every category, Tesla's business model is different, from selling in malls, to no franchises, to the buying and servicing experiences, to lack of advertising.

Everything that doesn't add value has been stripped from the ownership process and resulting costs mitigated. What's left is a pleasant experience of vehicle ownership.

For service (I accidentally broke side mirror), one registers online and they offer time slots. Everything had been ordered and ready when I arrived for mirror replacement. Quick in, quick out. There is no number to call and nobody to pay for scheduling my service appt. If you're not willing to do things online, or on your smartphone, this won't be the car for you.

The amount of moving parts in a Tesla is fraction of an ICE car. Therefore, there's considerably less to wear out or service. The business model is designed to make profit on the SALE of the car, not the downstream service costs. (speaking to you BMW/Audi/VAG/Merc).

There's no price negotiating, no salespeople (with desks, salaries and commissions to cover), no "finance manager". You buy online before you enter dealer. Versus traditional, there's significantly smaller real estate footprint with only one location in many US cities (excluding malls). Inventory (and associated carrying costs) is limited and usually your car must be ordered in advance.

Does something seem wrong with your car? They'll login via satellite and diagnose, with no dealer visit and resulting $100 diagnosis fee. Last week's over the air software update now has the car recognizing trash cans and traffic cones. No bricks and mortar required.

There's NO advertising and marketing. There's no brochures and there's no costs for these either.

I'm no Elon fanboy, and cringe when people view him as the God he isn't. However, every day I scratch my head, puzzled why it took someone with ZERO car industry experience to completely upend it. Tesla has thousands of bright and dedicated employees who have made this company a success. I choose to give them the credit.

It's undeniable that Tesla has changed the car industry permanently, likely for the better.

We should be copying Tesla's model in other industries: Reduced visits to hospitals would benefit us all, especially these days. We should be prioritizing scalable medical technology that can deliver better results with smaller footprints. Same is true with education. No longer needed are $250 million capital campaigns to build a new campus or building. Universities, bastions of liberal thought, continue to ignore this inevitability.

[akelman]

Originally Posted by mistermo

Same is true with education. No longer needed are $250 million capital campaigns to build a new campus or building. Universities, bastions of liberal thought, continue to ignore this inevitability.

Change is coming, no doubt. But I think what you write above pivots on the misguided notion that most of the added value in higher education can be found in the classroom experience. That isn't the case, at least not for higher-tier colleges and universities, where a campus experience will remain central to quality and comparative advantage for many, many years ahead.