OT - Patriots, again- say it aint so Bill

[makoti]

And the fact that is a concern is further proof of the double standard. That doesn't get mentioned if it was Josh Allen, outside of "he just got the ball out". That was a continuation of a play in progress. The "take down" was started before the ball came out. Point is no one thinks of calling it if it isn't Brady.
If you seriously don't think Brady is protected differently than other QBs, you're simply not paying attention. "Star" QBs all get calls & protection the second tier don't. Manning was untouchable. Frankly, I'm looking forward to that continuing. I expect the Chiefs to benefit from a few cheap roughing calls in the coming years as the NFL protects the new face of the League.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

1) Can't answer that.

2) If the criteria is "winning is everything" does Kareem rank with MJ, Brady, and Russell? He certainly had one of the most unstoppable moves in pro sports. Perhaps his perceived aloofness and intellect worked against him when considering an all-consuming desire to win.

Interesting contrast between Russell and Kareem, who were outspoken on social issues and Jordan/Brady who weren't/aren't. Perhaps it's easier to lionize athletes who were single-minded in their pursuit of greatness. I don't know.

6 rings. He won a title in Milwaukee for Pete's sake. 6 time MVP. 19 time All Star. 10 time All-NBA First Team and 5 times All NBA-Second team. 11 times either First or Second Team All-NBA Defensive Team.

All time leader in points scored and career wins. Top 5 in rebounds and blocked shots. And the advanced metrics paint a similarly rosy picture: First in Win Shares. 1st in Offensive Win Shares.

To your point, I think folks forget because 1) He retired in 1989 and 2) He's not defined by his legacy on the court alone, but its not as if he was some also ran.

[makoti]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Interesting contrast between Russell and Kareem, who were outspoken on social issues and Jordan/Brady who weren't/aren't. Perhaps it's easier to lionize athletes who were single-minded in their pursuit of greatness. I don't know.

It's easier to lionize athletes who don't make you uncomfortable.

[Climb01742]

Team sport athletes do have a harder time taking political stances. The cost is higher. Interesting to compare that to Ali. Yes, he took a big hit at the time of refusing to be drafted, but he came back to be more popular than ever. Maybe he was a one-off but I do think team athletes pay a higher price for activism.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

6 rings. He won a title in Milwaukee for Pete's sake. 6 time MVP. 19 time All Star. 10 time All-NBA First Team and 5 times All NBA-Second team. 11 times either First or Second Team All-NBA Defensive Team.

All time leader in points scored and career wins. Top 5 in rebounds and blocked shots. And the advanced metrics paint a similarly rosy picture: First in Win Shares. 1st in Offensive Win Shares.

To your point, I think folks forget because 1) He retired in 1989 and 2) He's not defined by his legacy on the court alone, but its not as if he was some also ran.

Point taken.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by makoti

It's easier to lionize athletes who don't make you uncomfortable.

Ditto. Hence the dichotomy between Kobe/AI. AI was adored by his teammates but misunderstood/mid characterized by the media.

But this is a Pats thread ...

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

6 rings. He won a title in Milwaukee for Pete's sake. 6 time MVP. 19 time All Star. 10 time All-NBA First Team and 5 times All NBA-Second team. 11 times either First or Second Team All-NBA Defensive Team.

All time leader in points scored and career wins. Top 5 in rebounds and blocked shots. And the advanced metrics paint a similarly rosy picture: First in Win Shares. 1st in Offensive Win Shares.

To your point, I think folks forget because 1) He retired in 1989 and 2) He's not defined by his legacy on the court alone, but its not as if he was some also ran.

Kareem is a good example for GOAT debates. Even though he spent so many years as a < shudder > LA Laker, he demonstrated without a doubt that he could pretty much unpack his greatness wherever he was and it would be obvious, regardless of coach or owner or organization.

Winning is a lot of it, but excelling and winning independently--in different surroundings with different team structures--is also a lot of it. The term is "the" greatest, not "them" greatest, after all.

[dancinkozmo]

^ good point. wonder how many rings brady would be sporting without bellichek ?

[unterhausen]

alternate history is fun, you can come up with any answer you want. I think it's quite possible Brady would have no rings given the right circumstances. And a lot of teams really fall apart after a SB win, so one or two are probably better guess. I give the credit for that not happening to Belichick, and Kraft. Brady is nothing without a line and a good defense. It's good fun to watch a game where the defense gets in Brady's face a lot.

[makoti]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

alternate history is fun, you can come up with any answer you want. I think it's quite possible Brady would have no rings given the right circumstances. And a lot of teams really fall apart after a SB win, so one or two are probably better guess. I give the credit for that not happening to Belichick, and Kraft. Brady is nothing without a line and a good defense. It's good fun to watch a game where the defense gets in Brady's face a lot.

Here's where I give the entire organization credit - structuring Brady's contracts so he's well paid, but not killing the team. Having a supermodel wife who's gonna outearn you no matter what you do may have something to do with this, but the effects on continuity are real. Kudos to him for being willing to say "I have enough, winning matters more" or something like that. I just keep hoping that Mahomes is paying attention to Brady vs Rodgers/Stafford/et al. You have to be able to keep a team built around you.

[72gmc]

Schiano?

55 points to Iowa.
49 points to Purdue.
20 points in the 4th quarter alone to my Huskies.

Schiano?

[72gmc]

Oh yeah--51 points to Maryland.

Schiano?

[fiamme red]

Originally Posted by kppolich

Patriots by 10.

You also predicted the World Series correctly: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showp...2&postcount=11.

Are you a professional sports bettor? If not, maybe you should consider it.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

Oh yeah--51 points to Maryland.

Schiano?

Bo knows baseball and Bill knows defense.

[wc1934]

Say it ain't so Rob
(Is he the best tight end ever?)

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/p...DOO/story.html