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  #166  
Old 01-22-2019, 08:58 AM
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AngryScientist AngryScientist is offline
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if you still dig canti brakes, and cyclocross bikes, this seems like a solid deal for what is probably a great brand new frame and enve fork.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Raleigh...zJe:rk:20:pf:0

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  #167  
Old 01-22-2019, 10:53 AM
DuddyJ DuddyJ is offline
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Man where did all the composite experts come from?

Isn't doing finishing work part of the job? How many of you have sanded carbon fiber, what a pain in the ass. You need a very good face mask, ventilated area, jump suit, tons of cutting blades, wheels, gobs of sandpaper, and a lot of time. you'll still end up with black dust all over no matter how much protection you wear. Since the part is laid-up with over-wraps you're going to have more finishing work, which drives up man hours.
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  #168  
Old 01-22-2019, 11:53 AM
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R3awak3n R3awak3n is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XXtwindad View Post
Don't be That Guy!

Well, there's no accounting for taste, obviously, but on the Ti/Rent Control/Soccer Mom thread, Baum was called out several times as the epitome of Ti craftsmanship. You'll see a half-dozen Baums for sale before you see an Appleman. I've never seen one for sale.

Again, no accounting for taste, but if it fit, I wouldn't be posting this PSA
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Originally Posted by DuddyJ View Post
Man where did all the composite experts come from?

Isn't doing finishing work part of the job? How many of you have sanded carbon fiber, what a pain in the ass. You need a very good face mask, ventilated area, jump suit, tons of cutting blades, wheels, gobs of sandpaper, and a lot of time. you'll still end up with black dust all over no matter how much protection you wear. Since the part is laid-up with over-wraps you're going to have more finishing work, which drives up man hours.
I think everyone here agrees that the guy knows what he is doing. I agree, sanding CF is a huge PITA and evertime I have done it I always feel like I am going too deep.

I dunno, maybe needs better pictures because just looks bad from far while something like this looks nice




and I have seen some Applemans that to me look nice but maybe this is just part of the look and I just dont get it


Last edited by R3awak3n; 01-22-2019 at 11:56 AM.
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  #169  
Old 01-22-2019, 12:39 PM
hollowgram5 hollowgram5 is offline
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One thing that doesn't get talked about a lot with Appleman is that Matt went to school and has a degree in Composite Materials Engineering. Not that a degree is everything, but not many of the other custom carbon builders actually went to school for composites.

Ever seen an Alchemy carbon frame up close that's not painted? They look almost exactly like the Appleman from a finish perspective: raw, and the layup is beautiful to see. There's a guy here in SD I'm friends with, and it's something else.

Don't get me wrong, Calfee, Bohemian, Alchemy, Argonaut, and others are great bikes from reputable builders. I'd be happy to own any of them, but if I had the cash to spare, I think my money would probably go to Matt Appleman before any of the others.

If memory serves me correctly, he actually worked in the wind turbine industry before making the switch to bikes.
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  #170  
Old 01-22-2019, 12:40 PM
DuddyJ DuddyJ is offline
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So what we are looking at is 2 different manufacturing processes.

The Argonaut has a woven over-wrap over the headtube. Woven is a million times easier to work with in a situation like this, lots of curves, can really work it in and can make it look pretty damn good too. Its easier, its prettier, but it is heavier.

The Appleman looks like it has a uni-witness ply. It looks like he probably did a wet layup with a tow going one way and another layup on top 90* from the first. The witness ply is so that he can sand threw the top ply and see the material on the bottom. It is less pretty, more work, but it is lighter.
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  #171  
Old 01-22-2019, 12:49 PM
prototoast prototoast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3awak3n View Post
I think everyone here agrees that the guy knows what he is doing. I agree, sanding CF is a huge PITA and evertime I have done it I always feel like I am going too deep.

I dunno, maybe needs better pictures because just looks bad from far while something like this looks nice

and I have seen some Applemans that to me look nice but maybe this is just part of the look and I just dont get it
Argonaut frames are molded, so it's not a like-comparison.
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  #172  
Old 01-22-2019, 01:36 PM
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R3awak3n R3awak3n is offline
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very cool and I am glad to learn more about the 2 processes

appart from the lightness (and we are splitting hairs here right?) why would someone work in the more difficult process that looks worst? jk here but interested why pick one over the other
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  #173  
Old 01-22-2019, 02:21 PM
prototoast prototoast is offline
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Originally Posted by R3awak3n View Post
very cool and I am glad to learn more about the 2 processes

appart from the lightness (and we are splitting hairs here right?) why would someone work in the more difficult process that looks worst? jk here but interested why pick one over the other
Molded frames are great at scale--that's what all the big companies use, but they have a few drawbacks, namely cost and customization. Molds are expensive, and you need different molds for different sized frames. With tube-to-tube construction, a small builder can build a frame with any geometry, and can also easily customize things like tube size/thickness and joint-wrapping characteristics to best match the rider.

If a Trek Madone or Specialized Tarmac (or any other mass-produced bike) is the "right" bike for you, by all means go get one. It doesn't make sense for a small custom builder to try to compete with that scale. Where a smaller builder can add value is through customization that tube-to-tube construction allows.

As for aesthetics, Mr Appleman seems to like offering his products with the raw carbon look. Other tube-to-tube builders, such as FiftyOne Bikes cover them up with loads of stylish paint that hides the underlying construction (see, for example, https://fiftyonebikes.com/gallery/). Whether you prefer one or the other is just personal preference, and there's no right or wrong.

If you haven't ever had the chance to ride a tube-to-tube carbon bike, I would give it a try. I'm a hobby builder with no particular aptitude for this, and my bikes look a lot more "amateur" than any of these, but I'm still able to build myself a bike that rides, fits, and handles just the way I want.
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  #174  
Old 01-22-2019, 02:25 PM
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R3awak3n R3awak3n is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prototoast View Post
Molded frames are great at scale--that's what all the big companies use, but they have a few drawbacks, namely cost and customization. Molds are expensive, and you need different molds for different sized frames. With tube-to-tube construction, a small builder can build a frame with any geometry, and can also easily customize things like tube size/thickness and joint-wrapping characteristics to best match the rider.

If a Trek Madone or Specialized Tarmac (or any other mass-produced bike) is the "right" bike for you, by all means go get one. It doesn't make sense for a small custom builder to try to compete with that scale. Where a smaller builder can add value is through customization that tube-to-tube construction allows.

As for aesthetics, Mr Appleman seems to like offering his products with the raw carbon look. Other tube-to-tube builders, such as FiftyOne Bikes cover them up with loads of stylish paint that hides the underlying construction (see, for example, https://fiftyonebikes.com/gallery/). Whether you prefer one or the other is just personal preference, and there's no right or wrong.

If you haven't ever had the chance to ride a tube-to-tube carbon bike, I would give it a try. I'm a hobby builder with no particular aptitude for this, and my bikes look a lot more "amateur" than any of these, but I'm still able to build myself a bike that rides, fits, and handles just the way I want.
send me one of yours, I will test ride it
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  #175  
Old 01-22-2019, 03:48 PM
wino wino is offline
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Bar / Stem

Kinda like this combo:
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  #176  
Old 01-22-2019, 04:39 PM
Clean39T Clean39T is online now
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Stoemper CX - 56TT

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stoemper-AL...t/192799446077

This is for sale in Portland from a gent I know and I'd be happy to facilitate.

He's the original owner and when I saw it it looked to be in exceptional condition...

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  #177  
Old 01-22-2019, 04:45 PM
sillverchevy sillverchevy is offline
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Drool...

What a good looking Stoemper.
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  #178  
Old 01-23-2019, 11:31 AM
NewDFWrider NewDFWrider is offline
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Rivendell Rambouillet

I don't even know why I continue to troll ebay for more bikes when I barely have time to ride my own. Anyway, here's a bike that I'd like to own someday. Maybe someone can buy it now and then sell it to me in a few years.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RIVENDELL-R...E/323649018090
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  #179  
Old 01-23-2019, 02:03 PM
SimonC SimonC is offline
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This seems a good price for a Della Santa, and at least if it's local pickup you'll have a better sense of condition than one grainy eBay photo:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Della-Santa...cAAOSwEXtcSJmf

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  #180  
Old 01-23-2019, 02:28 PM
RobJ RobJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clean39T View Post
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stoemper-AL...t/192799446077

This is for sale in Portland from a gent I know and I'd be happy to facilitate.

He's the original owner and when I saw it it looked to be in exceptional condition...

Yowza! That is sweet and just looks well proportioned. If that starting price had a 1 in it, not a 2, I would find a way to have that thing coming East...
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