Shimano road 12 speed?

[sg8357]

Originally Posted by 9tubes

Shimano? I think I remember that brand. What happened to them?

Shimano is for the people who can't afford Simplex.

What the world needs is a good 5 speed cassette hub.

[lavi]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

Partial wireless...so the shifters wirelessly communicate to the FD and RD while those two pieces remain internally wired to the battery?

Wow. In only 4 short years, the big S has almost made it to where Sram has been sitting. Sheesh. Just go full wireless already. Why keep all the stupid wires and junction boxes and large batteries? I don't get it. Heaven forbid both Campy and Shimano admit (and adapt) that Sram kicked their asses with wireless.

Etap really blows. Don't try it.

I'm going back outside, sans mask, to yell at insects again.

Harumph!

[echappist]

Originally Posted by lavi

Wow. In only 4 short years, the big S has almost made it to where Sram has been sitting. Sheesh. Just go full wireless already. Why keep all the stupid wires and junction boxes and large batteries? I don't get it. Heaven forbid both Campy and Shimano admit (and adapt) that Sram kicked their asses with wireless.

Etap really blows. Don't try it.

I'm going back outside, sans mask, to yell at insects again.

Harumph!

Sram may be innovative, but their QC has been rather subpar. To date I have had:
-shifter paddle on one 2013 Red 10 speed RHS shifter snap;
-the cam and bushing on the opposing LHS shifter deteriorating to the point that it could snap;
-one Red derailleur snap at the knuckle;
-one Sram quick release loosening and opening on a ride, causing a crash.

The only well-made Sram part I had was a first gen 10 speed Red RHS shifter; eventually sold it to a guy whose Sram shifter snapped...

I was an evangelist for Sram stuff for so long, but those are quite inexcusable.

Shimano may be heavier, but it's functional, sturdy, and reliable.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by echappist

Sram may be innovative, but their QC has been rather subpar. To date I have had:
-shifter paddle on one 2013 Red 10 speed RHS shifter snap;
-the cam and bushing on the opposing LHS shifter deteriorating to the point that it could snap;
-one Red derailleur snap at the knuckle;
-one Sram quick release loosening and opening on a ride, causing a crash.

The only well-made Sram part I had was a first gen 10 speed Red RHS shifter; eventually sold it to a guy whose Sram shifter snapped...

I was an evangelist for Sram stuff for so long, but those are quite inexcusable.

Shimano may be heavier, but it's functional, sturdy, and reliable.

I dunno, my sram stuff has been flawless. 2 etap groups and now a force 1x.

[bfd]

Originally Posted by sg8357

Shimano is for the people who can't afford Simplex.

What the world needs is a good 5 speed cassette hub.

There is one! Grand Bois makes 120mm rear hubs for both 5 and 6 speed cassettes:

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/..._preview=true/

Good Luck!

[SoCalSteve]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

I dunno, my sram stuff has been flawless. 2 etap groups and now a force 1x.

Same here, never an issue with eTap 11speed, both rim and HRD. Been flawless for me too...

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by echappist

Sram may be innovative, but their QC has been rather subpar. To date I have had:
-shifter paddle on one 2013 Red 10 speed RHS shifter snap;
-the cam and bushing on the opposing LHS shifter deteriorating to the point that it could snap;
-one Red derailleur snap at the knuckle;
-one Sram quick release loosening and opening on a ride, causing a crash.

The only well-made Sram part I had was a first gen 10 speed Red RHS shifter; eventually sold it to a guy whose Sram shifter snapped...

I was an evangelist for Sram stuff for so long, but those are quite inexcusable.

Shimano may be heavier, but it's functional, sturdy, and reliable.

Had a gent 2 force shifter fail. Replaced with out questions, despite being out of warranty. A rival 10, original force 10, force 22, red 22 hydro, and eTap group that followed all performed flawlessly there after.

[9tubes]

No SRAM problems here, either mechanical or eTap.

No real Shimano problems either unless you count the complicated brifters that wear out and have no replaceable parts but that's become so common it's barely worth comment any longer.

[lavi]

Originally Posted by echappist

Sram may be innovative, but their QC has been rather subpar.

I'm not denying any of that really. Head to head, I'd admit that Shimano stuff may nudge ahead of Sram.

I'm merely talking electronic shifting here. The simplicity/effectiveness/and awesomeness (aka radness) of etap is unsurpassed. I get that Shimano's shifting may be quicker/precise. Campy is just Campy (it still gets me revvvved up). Both of their hydro braking is arguable better too. Again, on the wireless, full wireless, up against all the damn wires, junction boxes, and batteries....no contest.

Apologies for the drift. I get that peeps get excited when new DA is set to roll off the line. I like looking at it too. I just struggle to understand the wires. Simple as that.

[SoCalSteve]

Originally Posted by lavi

I'm not denying any of that really. Head to head, I'd admit that Shimano stuff may nudge ahead of Sram.

I'm merely talking electronic shifting here. The simplicity/effectiveness/and awesomeness (aka radness) of etap is unsurpassed. I get that Shimano's shifting may be quicker/precise. Campy is just Campy (it still gets me revvvved up). Both of their hydro braking is arguable better too. Again, on the wireless, full wireless, up against all the damn wires, junction boxes, and batteries....no contest.

Apologies for the drift. I get that peeps get excited when new DA is set to roll off the line. I like looking at it too. I just struggle to understand the wires. Simple as that.

I went from mechanical Shimano to DI2... after using eTap exclusively now for a few years, it certainly feels that “ wired “ groups should have been passed over. They just don’t make sense...I’ve been saying this forever...

[lavi]

Originally Posted by SoCalSteve

I went from mechanical Shimano to DI2... after using eTap exclusively now for a few years, it certainly feels that “ wired “ groups should have been passed over. They just don’t make sense...I’ve been saying this forever...

We can certainly hang out!

[Velocipede]

My NDA has been in for a few months now, can't help you guys.

[Coffee Rider]

I'll jump in here since it seems slightly more productive than yelling at clouds. I think Shimano and Campy look a lot better than SRAM, which is why I'm not getting SRAM in the near future. I have friends who have SRAM and really love it. I'm glad they enjoy it and I can't really object to what they have on their bikes, but I want mine to be visually appealing to me.

[SoCalSteve]

Originally Posted by lavi

We can certainly hang out!

At a distance of 6’ ...

[saab2000]

I certainly hope 12-speed mechanical exists with rim brakes. I expect it will for a while though freehub standards may change. Certainly there are no engineering challenges that can’t be met. Otherwise it may be a great opportunity to try Campagnolo 12-speed. Loved the 10-speed Record. Maybe 12-speed is as sweet.