Electric bike or second car

[benb]

Originally Posted by JAGI410

I agree with the spud. Get a scooter and a nice backpack. A new Ruckus is the same price as a nice ebike and can do 40mph. No moto license needed. Huge aftermarket if you like to tinker.

https://powersports.honda.com/street/scooter/ruckus

The Surly Big Easy is amazing, but it's $5000. FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS. In some cities that makes sense, but hard to justify for only grocery shopping.

Does the Ruckus actually do 40mph without a moto license? That seems excessive... were you thinking of the "Big Ruckus" Honda used to sell? I surrendered my Moto license a year or two ago after having one for 20 years, so I'm out of touch.

I do agree, eBike prices are pretty excessive compared to Motorcycle prices. I'd be curious how much of it is just battery cost. There are a LOT of complex mechanical parts/designs in motorcycles in comparison, as well as so much more regulation for the manufacturer to deal with.

I don't have an eBike but at this point for commuting and such I'd buy one over a scooter I think. The *only* negative is I think it's still very acceptable/reasonable to expect your eBike to be stolen from the office whereas security might actually try to stop someone from stealing your scooter/motorcycle. Police/security still treat bicycles as something it's no big deal to steal. I ride my regular bike to work sometimes and while it's sometimes OK to bring it up the elevator in a pinch it's not really a workable solution on a regular basis and it certainly doesn't scale up as a bunch of employees start riding to work.

[unterhausen]

just as a rough estimate, a good battery retails for about $500. So that doesn't really explain things like Salsa's $6000 utility ebike.

I think Kona sells a fairly similar bike to the Salsa for $4000

[benb]

I've gotta think the prices are partly cause they're selling as luxury greenwashing products.

I really should look... but I could get by for my use case with exceedingly small battery capacity.

I would be using it for ~10 miles on a day I use it, and I'd only be using the bare minimum assist needed to just arrive without sweating through my street clothes. I have just enough hills on the way to/from work that I get a little sweaty... though cycling enthusiasm is a problem there. It's hard for me to putz along slow enough.

My guess is few of the products that are high quality are setup for my use case, they probably have far more battery capacity and motor than I need.

But the stuff like the GSD Tern is intriguing. That's a use case where I could literally go pick my 7 year old up on the way home, and that amount of power would probably still keep me from sweating. It would be able to replace a really large # of car trips.

[Ralph]

IMO it depends on the roads, trails, wide sidewalks, etc......that you can use to run your errands. If busy roads.....plan accordingly. I use my wife's E Bike a lot.

I'm lucky....we have a 14' wide smooth trail near my house that goes about where I would want to go for daily errands....5-6 miles or so each way....grocery, many Docs, public library, etc. If I had to use busy streets or roads....would use a car or scooter (and probably not a 50 CC).

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by benb

I've gotta think the prices are partly cause they're selling as luxury greenwashing products.

the problem we have right now in the U.S. is not enough people are using them for errands and commuting. Then again, it's not hard for something like the Kona electric ute to pay for itself pretty quickly.

[Ralph]

This is an interesting post to me. I'm of the age where we need to downsize our living quarters. Just don't need the home we raised our kids in. Also....really tired of keeping a nice lawn, and keeping the pool up. So we want to move to a single story condo with a 2 car garage. Where I could go grocery shopping with an E bike or similar. And....I'm willing to pay more for one that is close to a bike trail, public transportation, our commuter rail line, stores, health care facilities, restaurants, public library, etc. Where I can either walk to local things, ride a bike of some sort, use an electric cart, take Uber, etc. We want to minimize car ownership and use....just have one vehicle. Could pay an extra $50,000-$75,000 for a condo near those things, compared to cost of owning a nice vehicle (depreciation, maintenance, insurance, etc). Problem is....general area where I live....that's what all down sizing folks want.

[stien]

As someone with an E-bike to haul 120# of dog to work almost daily...I say just get a trailer. If you're only going to get groceries, save the $4900 you don't spend for a custom Firefly.

[biker72]

Thanks for all the great responses.
I did check out a cargo bike. Waaay to big for my needs.
A scooter makes good sense but then I would be getting no exercise.

I park my current commuter bike inside where I work. No theft threat. I park all my bikes inside my house. Security at the grocery store, doc's office, etc. could be problematic. No bike racks.

When I run errands on my bike I usually take the less traveled roads even if it takes a little longer.

Observations when doing research:
These electric bikes can be a little pricey.
I had no idea that there are so many electric bike companies in existence.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by biker72

Thanks for all the great responses.
I did check out a cargo bike. Waaay to big for my needs.
A scooter makes good sense but then I would be getting no exercise.

I park my current commuter bike inside where I work. No theft threat. I park all my bikes inside my house. Security at the grocery store, doc's office, etc. could be problematic. No bike racks.

When I run errands on my bike I usually take the less traveled roads even if it takes a little longer.

Observations when doing research:
These electric bikes can be a little pricey.
I had no idea that there are so many electric bike companies in existence.

You wouldn't be getting exercise in a small car either and a lot of 'e' bikes are really electric scooters anyway.

I've been considering getting a second car for light grocery shopping and errands. Normally I use my Specialized Diverge and a backpack to do this but sometimes things get a little heavy.

Scooter..Honda Metro-100MPG, lasts forever, $2k....no license, OK on city streets.

[benb]

I don't think the money think is that easy to justify for me.

My car is long ago paid for. I am not going to be able to drop it's registration/insurance if I got an eBike.

My gasoline costs are < $1000 a year. The eBike is not going to make that vanish as the eBike can't completely make the car go away. I'd still have to keep my car maintained, that cost would go down slightly.

Over a certain # of years I think the eBike can compare favorably to something like a Honda scooter or a small motorcycle. The maintenance on the eBike will be WAY cheaper than the motorcycle unless you're able to do all your own motorcycle work.

Having owned an expensive Honda motorcycle, the maintenance on that would have been more expensive than any car I've owned. I did most of the maintenance on the motorcycle myself to bring the cost down, and the scooter should be a low maintenance design compared to a performance motorcycle. But if you end up needing to take your Honda scooter/moto to the dealer for work forget it. You're talking megabucks compared to eBikes. Oil changes, tire changes, etc.. are way more expensive than bicycle maintenance. If you do your own oil changes, etc.. you may have a PITA with disposal too. When I lived in NH disposal was super easy. In MA where I live now it's a PITA. If you get into a scooter that requires a license/registration/insurance that adds a ton of cost that an eBike doesn't have as well. A $4000 eBike that doesn't require a moto license + insurance starts look really really cheap compared to a $4000 motorcycle that suddenly costs $1000/yr for insurance cause you're in your 20s.

[Ralph]

Some E Bikes with rear hub motor come with throttles. And can get down into the $1200-$1600 range. Very basic models....but they work fine. Perfect for running errands. Although I prefer the mid motor design.

Here is an E Bike only shop near me. Great prices. Lots less than LBS. No need for hi end parts. it's got a motor.

https://www.crazylennysebikes.com/

[woolly]

After riding a hub-motor/throttle "moped" and a more modern e-bike with pedal-assist, I personally would go for the Surly Big Easy without question. Sad part is, I already have a Big Dummy that I love, but is cost-prohibitive to add good electric assist to. The cheaper throttle-based hub-motor retrofit options are double-meh, IMO.

[YoKev]

My wife and I bought a Big Easy a few weeks ago. We love it.

We added the fenders and the kid corral for versatility. She can even sit on the deck for a quick run to the brewery. Adding some lighting is the next mod we will do.

I think the biggest criticism of the Surly is that it doesn't come with fenders or lighting for the price. Apparently some competitors come better equipped, but we didn't cross shop anything else (except craigslist Miatas).

We are anxious for the warm weather to come back so we can really put it to work. So far, we have about 65 miles on it. Some of that is joyriding, but most miles are trips that we would have used a car for. I drive A LOT. When I get home, it's nice to park the car, get some fresh air, and use this for errands.


BE1

[rinconryder]

Originally Posted by Jeckel30

Has anyone ridden a Radwagon?https://www.radpowerbikes.com/produc...ric-cargo-bike
At $1500 it is a lot easier to justify but I am sure it isn’t nearly as good as a Tern, Yuba, or Surly.

My Rad Wagon just arrives yesterday. I got it for the purpose of taking my daughter around town and running short errands. It is my second electric bike - my other one is a Giant QuickE. I have only ridden the Rad Power Bikes a short period of time compared to the Giant but there are obvious differences in quality especially when talking about the motor. That being said, the Rad Wagon is exactly what I need for my purposes, a casual E bike for the weekends/ evenings with my family.

Rad Power Bikes is a great option but if you do a lot of commuting on an ebike I would look to something more refined from Giant/Trek/Specialized.

[KidWok]

My Stromer ST1 is my primary vehicle for commuting and generally getting around in Seattle. I can tow a trailer and do my Costco run with it. I own a car and it's mostly for getting out of town and hauling my kids around when it's raining. When it's dry, we use a Tern GSD. My partner uses the GSD when she wants an e-bike, but she's usually bussing or riding her non-assisted commuter. She also has a car an almost never uses it. We live with another family member who bought a ST1 shortly after I did and now rides an ST2 as her primary vehicle. She also leaves her car home most days. A car seems to be a necessity on rare occasions, but a hindrance most of the time due to traffic and cost.

Tai