Some OT wrenching perspective, we are really lucky!

[benb]

I had a couple decent wrench jobs over Xmas. Both new items out of the box/crate.

1) I built a Huffy. We bought one of my son's friends this bike. I would have loved to get him something else but that's what his Mom asked for, single Mom, she is not going to take care of it I think, so we got him what she asked for.

2) I built a ~$2000 Nordic Track treadmill.

The Huffy came with the BB + headset installed, rear wheel installed, front wheel not installed. Handlebar came mounted to a quill stem which just needed to be inserted into the steer tube. Pedals had to be installed, front brake had to be setup. They have a funky setup where the cable is already installed and the cable end has already been crimped on, and the brake lever allows you install/remove the brake lever end of the cable after the fact. Rear brake was a coaster brake and seemed to be fine out of the box, didn't have to adjust it. The front brake is a joke, there are factory videos they apparently have a tool to make it easy to bend the parts of the caliper/springs to adjust it. After a really long time I got it serviceable but I'd still put it in the "unsafe at any speed category" for brakes. This is a kids bike, I'd assume the adult bikes are better.

Overall though.. everything on the Huffy was fine. Threads were all nicely tapped, nothing had to be forced, nothing was obviously misaligned, etc..

My son had a $400 Trek, this Huffy was $100, you can instantly see where the money goes in the Trek. The Huffy was at least 2X the weight, maybe 3X, the brakes on the Trek are much better (read safe), headset is miles better, bearings obviously better, the Trek has a freewheel and 6 speeds, Shimano components, etc..

But there was nothing really WRONG with the Huffy. It'd be a better bike for a kid if I had torn the front brake off and tossed the brake lever + caliper in the trash and he'd just use the coaster brake, but I didn't do that.

Now onto the Treadmill.. my wife bought this, it was advertised as a commercial level one. I have often wondered at the gym where the money was going as everything at gyms feels really cheap compared to bikes. This is a super fancy treadmill, it's got a big computer screen built into it and has a whole service like Peloton but for runners.

Anyway.. what did I find on the ~$2k treadmill:

- Holes not tapped, they want you to self tap holes into steel by hand. (Manual bans using a powered screwdriver/drill)

- Manufacturing tolerances so loose that almost all the major holes for assembly are stamped out as ovals so all the parts can be slid around to align things.

- Numerous parts that are assembled by screwing into plastic

- Snap together parts that cannot be disassembled/reassembled without destroying plastic tabs. Some of these parts included covers that hide major bolts and such that you might need/want to tighten/check to make sure they are not loosening from vibration.

I pretty much can't imagine seeing something like "force the screw in to tap the threads" or oval holes on a bike.

I don't know, it was just an interesting perspective on where money is going and how refined even the cheapest "IBD" bikes are. That $500 Trek/Specialized/whatever is still made at an outrageously nice build quality today compared to so many other types of products. Even the Huffy is really high quality compared to so many other products sold today, especially when you consider most of our bikes are made to survive the elements.

[Mark McM]

Just a comment on the typical usage of a Huffy vs. a treadmill:

Maybe this has changed, but decades ago when I was young, our Huffys and Murrays got used and abused quite a bit by kids who thought nothing of doing dirt jumps on our bikes and leaving them out in the rain and snow. These bikes never performed well, but they lasted for years, and were frequently handed down from one child to the next as kids got older. The makers of these bikes was probably aware of how they were used, and built them accordingly. While these bikes are sold cheaply, the makers keep expenses down by spending little on marketing.

In contrast, the majority of treadmills (and other similar home exercise equipment) are bought by people who hope that a shiny new purchase will help motivate them to meet their New Year's Resolutions to lose weight and get into shape. This equipment is typically used for just a month or two before the owner starts slacking off on their resolutions, and then spend the spring and summer sitting in the basement unused, or at best, being relegated to being a laundry rack. In the fall, they get shoved out into the yard or driveway in the annual garage sale, never to be used again by their original owners. The makers of this equipment is probably aware of how they are used, and build them accordingly. While this equipment sells for large price tags, the makers have little left over to actually make the equipment after paying for extensive marketing campaigns.

[Spoker]

As a kontrapunkt: Walmart level bikes left in the rain for months are useless-dangerous -and a nightmare to work on.

[Andy340]

I bought a NordikTrack incline treadmill for winter, seemed reasonablybuilt when I assembled it first (basically putting arms and console onto base) but when I needed to change the belt I found out how poorly aligned the frame was - I had to practically bend the frame with a long lever to reposition the rollers etc.

Works again and has been a good product overall but if I was doing it over I would strongly consider the extended warranty because if it breaks, the fix is not worth the trouble

[unterhausen]

Bicycle manufacturers can't get away with stuff like they do in consumer junk exercise equipment. There is no standard of reference in that type of product.

There is a certain amount of blacksmithing involved in wrenching on sub-$1000 bikes though.

[muz]

Yes, treadmill manufacturers get away with this because they know most treadmills don't get used long enough to wear out the belt.

On a side note, NordicTrack is basically a treadmill shaped object. If you compare it to a TRUE Fitness treadmill in the same price range for instance, you will see that the electronics are much simpler, but the mechanics are really sturdy. Big difference in the run feel and the noise level.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Spoker

As a kontrapunkt: Walmart level bikes left in the rain for months are useless-dangerous -and a nightmare to work on.

Like machine built wheels, if a WallyWorld bike is taken apart, assembled better, it really is a fine, useable bike. I've always said, if places like WW, Costco, etc, invested in a 'bike shop' with trained wrenches..rather than having the guy who assembles patio furniture build the bikes..more LBS' would be in trouble than are now.

I've bought many $50 wheels from JandB when in the trenches..and a complete true/round/dish/tension/stress-relieve and hub grease and adjust..and gee, these work just fine.

A trek left in the rain for months is useless also.

[notsew]

Much more challenging to die from a catastrophic failure on a treadmill...

[benb]

Originally Posted by muz

On a side note, NordicTrack is basically a treadmill shaped object. If you compare it to a TRUE Fitness treadmill in the same price range for instance, you will see that the electronics are much simpler, but the mechanics are really sturdy. Big difference in the run feel and the noise level.

My experience going to the gym for decades kind of makes me think all the equipment in the gyms is just as junky as the Nordic Track.

Seeing everything rusted out, flexible cranks on Lifecycles, broken pedals, etc, etc..

[Spaghetti Legs]

Oh but with the treadmill, the reward is sweet:


https://youtu.be/dTAAsCNK7RA

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Like machine built wheels, if a WallyWorld bike is taken apart, assembled better, it really is a fine, useable bike. I've always said, if places like WW, Costco, etc, invested in a 'bike shop' with trained wrenches..rather than having the guy who assembles patio furniture build the bikes..more LBS' would be in trouble than are now.

A decade ago, the grad students decided they wanted to ride bikes and a couple of them bought Varsitys. Those bikes were a little heavy but really solid. I think at that time they sold for $200. Then I was badgered into building up a Denali, and that bike was unsafe and really difficult for me to fix. Even with my years of experience with '70s junk AMFs and Huffys. Rims were bent, brakes had zero power. Of course, if you compare the cost of the denali to those AMFs, the Denali is far cheaper. What do you really expect for $69.99? OTOH, I feel fortunate that I don't have any current experience with department store bikes. They are generally built with the expectation that they will not be ridden.

[mcteague]

Forget the treadmill , get a Concept 2 rower! Built like a tank and pretty easy to work on. Replacing the internal bungee and sliders can be a bit fussy the first time you do though but it will be many years before you need to do it again. Better workout IMO as well.

Tim

[benb]

The gym I go to now has switched to the Concept 2 Model "D" which appears to be their cheapest, it is pretty junky compared to the more expensive ones I remember seeing in the past.

The "D" model is very plasticky and I've seen them break quite a few times.

I wouldn't mind having a concept 2 at home to use instead of a trainer.

[Meisen]

Concept II rowers have always been made pretty well IMO. I think the new D and E models are fine and still durable where they count. And well-supported by the company for spare parts. Even if you have a decade+ old model they still stock most (all?) of the parts you'd need to fix any of the moving parts.. Part of the plasticy thing is to save some weight. The old Model A and Model Bs were so stupidly heavy.

The only time I see real problems with them is when they are misused in gyms...which is nearly all the time. People dropping weights on them, letting the handle fly, slamming the front stops etc.