Adjusting approach to conventional road riding

[Dave Ferris]

Originally Posted by m4rk540

Clean39, don't let your story become that of the highly respected and possibly envied Paceline member who died from a household accident. That gentleman who had gone through countless high end bikes, after escaping a Justice Department prosecution for defrauding the federal government for hundreds of millions, decided that other risks, such as road riding were not worth it. If I recall correctly, he gave up road for mtb, and then at the young age of late 50s, he succumbed to an indoor fall. .

Jack Brunk. I was so shocked to hear that news. After all the thousands of miles he rode both on the road and trails. Jack spent so much time with me on the phone. The epitome of nice guy.

[eBAUMANN]

sorry to hear this man, and i feel your pain, but the sad reality is that there is NOTHING you can do about dumb-ass drivers, no amount of awareness or hi-viz is going to change the transformation most humans undergo as soon as they sit behind the wheel.

ive also been riding less and less on the road these days. once you do a little traveling and realize how much better it is elsewhere (outside of the populated areas of america) it becomes hard to find motivation to put up with all the bullsh*t youll inevitably run into, especially riding around any "greater _____ area" in this country of ours.

the good news is there are miles of dirt out there, and youll probably find em far more engaging and rewarding than anything youve ever done on asphalt

[bobvelo]

I am sorry for, everyones stress in dealing with road riding. We are blessed to live, near Gettysburg, and it is great riding from the end of my long lane. The Baltimore, bike club rides a lot in the area, as I was talking to a 70 plus year gentleman on his bike, and he said this was Gods country. My personal take, back on the topic, is I have a job, and work the 3-11 PM shift, as my choice for one main reason, riding, so 9 AM till noon any day is great, no traffic. I went on my same roads 4-7 pm AND it was not a good experience. RUDE, land was alive and well. Best, to you and yours; bobvelo;

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by eBAUMANN

sorry to hear this man, and i feel your pain, but the sad reality is that there is NOTHING you can do about dumb-ass drivers, no amount of awareness or hi-viz is going to change the transformation most humans undergo as soon as they sit behind the wheel.

ive also been riding less and less on the road these days. once you do a little traveling and realize how much better it is elsewhere (outside of the populated areas of america) it becomes hard to find motivation to put up with all the bullsh*t youll inevitably run into, especially riding around any "greater _____ area" in this country of ours.

the good news is there are miles of dirt out there, and youll probably find em far more engaging and rewarding than anything youve ever done on asphalt

Originally Posted by bobvelo

I am sorry for, everyones stress in dealing with road riding. We are blessed to live, near Gettysburg, and it is great riding from the end of my long lane. The Baltimore, bike club rides a lot in the area, as I was talking to a 70 plus year gentleman on his bike, and he said this was Gods country. My personal take, back on the topic, is I have a job, and work the 3-11 PM shift, as my choice for one main reason, riding, so 9 AM till noon any day is great, no traffic. I went on my same roads 4-7 pm AND it was not a good experience. RUDE, land was alive and well. Best, to you and yours; bobvelo;

My new job is affording me more flexibility also. I went out at 10a-ish yesterday and had a wonderful ride, albeit short, and closer to home.

My default had been riding around 4-8p weekdays, and late-morning/early-afternoon on Saturdays. Those might be about the worst times to be on the road in areas where people are hell-bent on getting to/from work, Home Depot, Bed Bath and Beyond, and soccer practice for the kiddos.

The bear can get you anytime, anywhere - I guess we are all just trying to limit the risk, without getting overly actuarial about it (Ruben in Along_Came_Polly comes to mind..).

I'll be doing my first "gravel" event this weekend. Will see what that brings...

[shinomaster]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

EDIT: I really appreciate all the perspectives shared here. I'm not ready to give up on road riding. But I am committing to being more selective about when and where I ride in order to reduce the statistical likelihood of ending up dead or disabled. And I apologize for the stereotyping below - most people in most places are good and gracious - and likewise, driving like a complete jackhole is not the sole domain of any one tribe, type of vehicle, or whatever...

Be well friends.

---------

This is my rant. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

I've generally gone numb to the prickish behavior of motorists I encounter on most of my rides. I've learned to ride very defensively, to expect right and left hooks, etc. I've even shrugged off d-bags with hyper inferiority-complexes who think their manhood is somehow confirmed by rolling diesel in my face.

But four times today I almost got intentionally hit or run off the road, and it's just gotten under my skin more than ever before. So much so that I actually told my wife about it...a dicey move considering she already doesn't like me riding on the road...and am pretty much feeling like I want to just focus on gravel, cross, and mtb - with an occasional organized road event.

And when I say intentionally hit or run off the road, I mean situations where there was no reason at all for a $100K BMW to give me 6-inches of clearance at 50-60mph, with me going 35mph in a 40mph zone, or someone in an expensive big-a$$ truck pulling up behind me and then flooring their diesel while swerving toward me just for fun, or someone swerving into oncoming traffic and then back over and into the bike lane right in front of me rather than waiting 20 seconds until it was safe to pass. Oh, and the topper, I'm going 35-40mph down a hill in a 35mph zone - I get a big gust of wind off a truck going in the opposite direction up the hill, probably going 60mph, and that wind gives me a speed wobble, so I slow down a bit and the car behind me lays on their horn like I've spoiled their day by slowing down to 30mph for 100ft.

I just don't get the animosity and general loathsome behavior of people in cars. Maybe I'm just unlucky. Maybe I'm overly sensitive today for some reason. But goddamit, I don't want to be a statistic. And as much as I love riding road bikes, I'm seriously having a hard time justifying it at this point. There are other ways to enjoy two-wheel fun. I guess its time to go find them.

/rant-off

I agree, Portland drivers suck.

[drewski]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

EDIT: I really appreciate all the perspectives shared here. I'm not ready to give up on road riding. But I am committing to being more selective about when and where I ride in order to reduce the statistical likelihood of ending up dead or disabled. And I apologize for the stereotyping below - most people in most places are good and gracious - and likewise, driving like a complete jackhole is not the sole domain of any one tribe, type of vehicle, or whatever...

Be well friends.

---------

This is my rant. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

I've generally gone numb to the prickish behavior of motorists I encounter on most of my rides. I've learned to ride very defensively, to expect right and left hooks, etc. I've even shrugged off d-bags with hyper inferiority-complexes who think their manhood is somehow confirmed by rolling diesel in my face.

But four times today I almost got intentionally hit or run off the road, and it's just gotten under my skin more than ever before. So much so that I actually told my wife about it...a dicey move considering she already doesn't like me riding on the road...and am pretty much feeling like I want to just focus on gravel, cross, and mtb - with an occasional organized road event.

And when I say intentionally hit or run off the road, I mean situations where there was no reason at all for a $100K BMW to give me 6-inches of clearance at 50-60mph, with me going 35mph in a 40mph zone, or someone in an expensive big-a$$ truck pulling up behind me and then flooring their diesel while swerving toward me just for fun, or someone swerving into oncoming traffic and then back over and into the bike lane right in front of me rather than waiting 20 seconds until it was safe to pass. Oh, and the topper, I'm going 35-40mph down a hill in a 35mph zone - I get a big gust of wind off a truck going in the opposite direction up the hill, probably going 60mph, and that wind gives me a speed wobble, so I slow down a bit and the car behind me lays on their horn like I've spoiled their day by slowing down to 30mph for 100ft.

I just don't get the animosity and general loathsome behavior of people in cars. Maybe I'm just unlucky. Maybe I'm overly sensitive today for some reason. But goddamit, I don't want to be a statistic. And as much as I love riding road bikes, I'm seriously having a hard time justifying it at this point. There are other ways to enjoy two-wheel fun. I guess its time to go find them.

/rant-off

I hear you. Its like we live in the Deathrace 2000, bicycle rider edition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Race_2000


At times, members of our society are in big douchy self-absorbed bubble.
Lack of empathy towards cyclists is rampant even though we have a greater % of bike ride share that we have had since the oil crisis.

[sitzmark]

Originally Posted by drewski

I hear you. Its like we live in the Deathrace 2000, bicycle rider edition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Race_2000


At times, members of our society are in big douchy self-absorbed bubble.
Lack of empathy towards cyclists is rampant even though we have a greater % of bike ride share that we have had since the oil crisis.

I hear everyone, recently I watched the right rear wheel of a vehicle come off the ground as the driver raced by me and right hooked me into the entrance of a condo complex. They had to back off the turn to avoid rolling the vehicle (RAV4ish looking) and ended up in a grassy area adjacent to the entry road. Suburban road with 40mph limit. I was traveling a little over 30mph (1-2% negative grade).

...but this isn't just a lack of empathy toward cyclists. Traveling on roadways is a risk for anyone choosing to use them. Far more people die in motor vehicles every day than cyclists struck by them. Yes, there are true bike haters but I believe they are a small percentage of the public - most people are just annoyed by anything getting in their way or are inattentive.

Not changing my rides.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by sitzmark

...but this isn't just a lack of empathy toward cyclists. Traveling on roadways is a risk for anyone choosing to use them. Far more people die in motor vehicles every day than cyclists struck by them. Yes, there are true bike haters but I believe they are a small percentage of the public - most people are just annoyed by anything getting in their way or are inattentive.

This is true but also true is that it is acceptable to be a bike hater. Recall that Clear Channel episode a few years ago, and the rather vocal and vicious people in places like NYC as documented by people like Bike Snob NYC.

The gravel thing has been great. It's not like I seek out gravel for its own sake, it's just that some of the most beautiful roads happen to be gravel. The lack of cars is an added benefit. I love paved roads too. We are fortunate in New England. Did you know that Vermont is the second least populated state?? This at least according to the last census. NH, ME also very cool, Western MA... Even the busier roads like the Kanc and touristy places that have lots of cars are pretty tame. Less attitude among people on vacation with their families I guess.

Here is how I plan my summer.

[sitzmark]

Originally Posted by marciero

This is true but also true is that it is acceptable to be a bike hater. Recall that Clear Channel episode a few years ago, and the rather vocal and vicious people in places like NYC as documented by people like Bike Snob NYC.
...
Here is how I plan my summer.

Cool plans!

I understand the "hater concept" but those who do it and those who condone practicing it are a small percentage. The majority of people respect bicyclists who share the roads even if they are frustrated by "bad behaving" cyclists at times.

Spent a good chunk of my teenage years in GA. Moved there from CO so it was a bit of a culture shock. Rode bikes at the time but was not a "cyclist". Had friends across the clicks in high school ... jocks, freaks, etc. There was a thing in high school (and even with friends who moved on to semi-pro level) to have no respect for "weak". Comments about bikers were that they were skinny little f..'s. It isn't the fact that they were cyclists - just that they were not usually endowed with muscle and perceived as sissies. All sissies were a target of "hate"/ridicule.

Greg LeMond's TDF success at the time did make some headway (LA too later) toward acceptance, as respect for "patriotism" and toughness ran deep. I departed the South after college and have been an infrequent visitor (in a completely different environment - business) so can't speak to how the culture may/may not be different today.

[Gummee]

So there were 7 of us including me on the Haymarket ride last nite. We're not hauling the mail, but we aren't going slowly either. Single paceline...

Guy in a black truck towing a trailer passes us safely along with everyone else on the road

No one thinks twice about it till we pass him a bit up the road. The guy is OUT OF HIS TRUCK yelling something about 'single fill ssholes!'

Ummm yeah. [/I]WHO[/I] is the sshole here?!

I was 3rd in line and I know *I* was riding single file. Maybe there were guys behind me that were left of the guy in front of him, but we weren't bunched up by any stretch.

I'm really curious what makes the guy think that yelling at complete strangers is going to make us change our riding behavior when we were already riding single file. Especially when 2 wide is legal as long as you're not impeding the reasonable movement of traffic

M

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by Gummee

So there were 7 of us including me on the Haymarket ride last nite. We're not hauling the mail, but we aren't going slowly either. Single paceline...

Guy in a black truck towing a trailer passes us safely along with everyone else on the road

No one thinks twice about it till we pass him a bit up the road. The guy is OUT OF HIS TRUCK yelling something about 'single fill ssholes!'

Ummm yeah. [/I]WHO[/I] is the sshole here?!

I was 3rd in line and I know *I* was riding single file. Maybe there were guys behind me that were left of the guy in front of him, but we weren't bunched up by any stretch.

I'm really curious what makes the guy think that yelling at complete strangers is going to make us change our riding behavior when we were already riding single file. Especially when 2 wide is legal as long as you're not impeding the reasonable movement of traffic

M

Yelling at anyone rarely accomplishes what the yeller hopes it will.

[HenryA]

When something unpredictable happens, many people become anxious or afraid. Its natural. Sometimes the fear is expressed in anger.

Imagine that there was no consensus on which side of the road to drive on. Every time another vehicle approached you would wonder (and be justifiably fearful). Which side will they take? Which side do I take?

I think a lot of car drivers don’t quite know what to make of a bicyclist and the new question that the cyclist presents to them.

This morning I practiced a modified version of weisan’s method - I waved cars around me while they were well back and then again after they passed. It seemed to work and got some waves in return. I think it made me more predictable to the car drivers and certainly presented me more as a friendly human. I think it will help. I’m gonna try it for a while and see.

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by HenryA

When something unpredictable happens, many people become anxious or afraid. Its natural. Sometimes the fear is expressed in anger.

Imagine that there was no consensus on which side of the road to drive on. Every time another vehicle approached you would wonder (and be justifiably fearful). Which side will they take? Which side do I take?

I think a lot of car drivers don’t quite know what to make of a bicyclist and the new question that the cyclist presents to them.

This morning I practiced a modified version of weisan’s method - I waved cars around me while they were well back and then again after they passed. It seemed to work and got some waves in return. I think it made me more predictable to the car drivers and certainly presented me more as a friendly human. I think it will help. I’m gonna try it for a while and see.

Every once in a while I hose up waving cars around. Makes for an interesting few seconds...

But most of the time, I get it right and people seem to appreciate the signals.

Warming up for the Haymarket ride above, on Wed there were a few spots where I could hear cars coming up behind me and could see cars over the hill in front of me that the cars behind me couldn't see yet. The 'stop' motion seemed to work in keeping people from passing unsafely without ticking them off. Waving them around when I could see it was clear helped too.


YMMV

M

[Ken Robb]

I've said it before but I guess it bears repeating: when we ride racing bikes, wearing racing-like kit we are perceived by drivers as playing in traffic. It's as though we were wearing Manchester United uniforms (kit if you must but they call it "strip") and dribbling a soccer ball down the street.

I get more respect from drivers when I look very "fred" and have luggage on my bike. I think it's because drivers think I'm a poor guy who can't afford a car trying to get to work.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

I've said it before but I guess it bears repeating: when we ride racing bikes, wearing racing-like kit we are perceived by drivers as playing in traffic. It's as though we were wearing Manchester United uniforms (kit if you must but they call it "strip") and dribbling a soccer ball down the street.

I get more respect from drivers when I look very "fred" and have luggage on my bike. I think it's because drivers think I'm a poor guy who can't afford a car trying to get to work.

I think you're on to something there Ken..

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