Life of a waxed chain

[gemship]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

I've been riding with waxed chains on some of my bikes and thought I'd report on some findings. One of the things that's been interesting is how the need to rewax seems to manifest itself in a loud creaking noise when in a low gear. I had some low gear creaking noises on one of my bikes. I pulled the hub apart and couldn't see anything amiss. Bearings felt fine, no cracks, etc. It didn't yet occur to me that the chain needed a rewax because the creaking only happened when I was in a low gear and shifts seemed fine. I didn't have time to put everything back together and I set the wheel aside for a bit while I got some rides in on my other bikes. I then experienced the exact same sound on my other bikes - creaking, but only in low gear. I rewaxed all the chains and now all is good. Here's how many miles I got out of each bike:

Bike 1: 270mi
Bike 2: 120mi
Bike 3: 426mi

Bikes 1 and 2 are mountain bikes. Bikes 1 and 2 had some riding in some damp conditions. I seem to recall riding bike 1 in more damp conditions than bike 2, though bike 2 was subjected to some pounding rain while mounted to the roof of my car. Bike 3 is a gravel bike that saw a mix of mostly dry road and dirt conditions.

So when you go on to describe/say life of a waxed chain. Are you stating how long the wax stays on and ultimately does it's job?... because thats how it sounds to me. Honestly I don't ride a bicycle nearly as much as you or the contributing posters of this thread, nonetheless I am impressed with the longevity of your waxing all three bikes. 120 miles of riding a mtn. bike between chain lubes is huge IMHO and bike 2 being subjected to a rain storm well there you go as water is really good at penetration. Bike 3 truly sounds like you got your money's worth. Seriously is your starting this thread not just a wee bit of a humble brag? Honestly I think if you like waxing your chains and don't mind the cost then your ahead of the game. However I fall into the camp of believing waxing chains to be sorta expensive and time consuming.

Maybe waxing is cleaner but personally I prefer my homemade brew of three parts mineral spirits to one part 10w-40 motor oil. Because I always got that stuff around. It penetrates and my chains never rust except if I were to neglect them like leaving the bike outside or not lubing after a good soapy water bike cleaning. I also like to use my Park tool chain cleaning device with soapy water. From everything I read on this subject here in this thread I just don't see waxing chains as much of an advantage. I also tend to think what shortens a chain's life the most is the act of shifting. Chains stretch...

[Dave]

U

Originally Posted by JStonebarger

Simply not true.

In 2013 the VeloNews/Friction Facts study showed straight parrafin wax performing much better than any commercially available lube at the time. The same and subsequent studies have also shown that most additives to parrafin don't help it's performance, they hurt it.

Rationalize your own mixture however you want, but actual evidence to the contrary is out there.

You need to chill. I refer to THIS thread, not everything published in the last 6 years. If you have contradictory information, post it in a civilized manor. I post with the hope of helping others.

In the past, I've used other home brew lubes, like oil mixed with mineral spirits and I got good chain life from it, but it was extremely dirty. My current mixture of oil, paraffin and naptha is a huge improvement in cleanliness. I haven't used it long enough to get chain life data. Friction information showing 1 watt lower power consumption doesn't impress me.

Chain efficiency and chain life are not the same thing. MSW shows the same sort of result with their wax lube. I've never seen a test that included a clean, but totally dry chain in the comparison.

[gemship]

A well lubed chain thats totally clean sounds like an oxymoron.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by gemship

A well lubed chain thats totally clean sounds like an oxymoron.

I used your lube for years and got good chain life from it, but it attracted a huge amount of dirt. Home brew liquid wax lube is a huge improvement. So far, I have no indication that chain life will suffer.

Also, soapy water is nearly worthless as a chain cleaner, as are bike mounted chain cleaning devices.

[gemship]

Originally Posted by Dave

I used your lube for years and got good chain life from it, but it attracted a huge amount of dirt. Home brew lquid wax lube is a huge improvement. So far, I have no indication that chain life will suffer.

I have no doubt there for the simple fact that a big ride for me is twenty miles or so at a time. I never ride in the rain and I ride on nice dry days. It does attract dirt but I can make it look nice from a foot or two away with a rag and some more mineral spirits. More than likely if I did what you do I would probably be sold on it because it sounds great. Actually it sounds like the perfect lube for the Oring chain on my motorcycle.

[weaponsgrade]

Originally Posted by gemship

So when you go on to describe/say life of a waxed chain. Are you stating how long the wax stays on and ultimately does it's job?... because thats how it sounds to me. Honestly I don't ride a bicycle nearly as much as you or the contributing posters of this thread, nonetheless I am impressed with the longevity of your waxing all three bikes. 120 miles of riding a mtn. bike between chain lubes is huge IMHO and bike 2 being subjected to a rain storm well there you go as water is really good at penetration. Bike 3 truly sounds like you got your money's worth. Seriously is your starting this thread not just a wee bit of a humble brag? Honestly I think if you like waxing your chains and don't mind the cost then your ahead of the game. However I fall into the camp of believing waxing chains to be sorta expensive and time consuming.

Maybe waxing is cleaner but personally I prefer my homemade brew of three parts mineral spirits to one part 10w-40 motor oil. Because I always got that stuff around. It penetrates and my chains never rust except if I were to neglect them like leaving the bike outside or not lubing after a good soapy water bike cleaning. I also like to use my Park tool chain cleaning device with soapy water. From everything I read on this subject here in this thread I just don't see waxing chains as much of an advantage. I also tend to think what shortens a chain's life the most is the act of shifting. Chains stretch...

huh? 2 of the 3 mileage reports were under the 300 miles MSW states for rewaxing. One of them was less than half the 300. So I'm not quite sure how that can be considered bragging. I posted b/c I'm interested in hearing real world reports of what kind of mileage people are getting - especially dirt miles.

[fmradio516]

What is the "on the shelf" life of a waxed chain? Like, lets say someone only does 300 miles of riding over 6 months. Is it possible they'll be able to ride the whole season without ever swapping in a chain? Or is it kinda like oil changes where they say every 5k miles or 6months, whichever comes first?

[Dave]

Here's a link to some info on bicycle chain efficiency. This is what's missing from the MSW test - how much worse is using no lube at all, if all you care about is friction loss and not chain life?

https://pages.jh.edu/~news_info/news...ug99/bike.html

The Johns Hopkins engineers made another interesting discovery when they looked at the role of lubricants. The team purchased three popular products used to "grease" a bicycle chain: a wax-based lubricant, a synthetic oil and a "dry" lithium-based spray lubricant. In lab tests comparing the three products, there was no significant difference in energy efficiency. "Then we removed any lubricant from the chain and ran the test again," Spicer recalls. "We were surprised to find that the efficiency was essentially the same as when it was lubricated."

The researcher speculates that a bicycle lubricant does not play a critical role under clean lab conditions, using a brand new chain. But it may contribute to energy efficiency in the rugged outdoors. "The role of the lubricant, as far as we can tell, is to take up space so that dirt doesn't get into the chain," Spicer says. "The lubricant is essentially a clean substance that fills up the spaces so that dirt doesn't get into the critical portions of the chain where the parts are very tightly meshed. But in lab conditions, where there is no dirt, it makes no difference. On the road, we believe the lubricant mostly assumes the role of keeping out dirt, which could very well affect friction in the drive train."

[oldguy00]

Dave,
Your homebrew mix, how clean is it, like if you grab your chain with your hand, or what gets deposited on your drivetrain?

The fact that wax happens to test a watt or so faster than other lubes really means nothing to me, its the cleanliness I love.

As for chain life, I put a new chain on every May before race season, gets me through the summer, and then continue to use that chain all through the winter until the next May.

I never really bother to check wear, and shifting has always been perfect, and have yet to wear out any drivetrain parts.

But I may be an outlier in that outside of my races, almost all my training is indoors, so not as much dirt as other people might see..

Cheers

[fmradio516]

Originally Posted by oldguy00

Dave,
Your homebrew mix, how clean is it, like if you grab your chain with your hand, or what gets deposited on your drivetrain?

The fact that wax happens to test a watt or so faster than other lubes really means nothing to me, its the cleanliness I love.

As for chain life, I put a new chain on every May before race season, gets me through the summer, and then continue to use that chain all through the winter until the next May.

I never really bother to check wear, and shifting has always been perfect, and have yet to wear out any drivetrain parts.

But I may be an outlier in that outside of my races, almost all my training is indoors, so not as much dirt as other people might see..

Cheers

This is good to know. Ill probably go waxed if this is the case. I only ride offroad on my mountain bike, so i can just use reg lube on that, and then wax my pavement buddies.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by Dave

Here's a link to some info on bicycle chain efficiency. This is what's missing from the MSW test - how much worse is using no lube at all, if all you care about is friction loss and not chain life?



https://pages.jh.edu/~news_info/news...ug99/bike.html



The Johns Hopkins engineers made another interesting discovery when they looked at the role of lubricants. The team purchased three popular products used to "grease" a bicycle chain: a wax-based lubricant, a synthetic oil and a "dry" lithium-based spray lubricant. In lab tests comparing the three products, there was no significant difference in energy efficiency. "Then we removed any lubricant from the chain and ran the test again," Spicer recalls. "We were surprised to find that the efficiency was essentially the same as when it was lubricated."

I wonder if using an IR camera to measure frictional losses as heat is that accurate compared to the method used by the Friction Facts dudes.

Unless you're a racer in a time trial where fractions of a second matter, measuring wattage differences among chain lubes is an exercise in futility. The differences are irrelevant.

My criteria on choosing a chain lube is how easy it is to apply and remove, longevity, cleanliness, corrosion protection, and quietness. Pure wax fails for me, but Smoove is my current favorite along with Lilly Lube.

On wax, sure it may have low friction on a freshly waxed chain, but what after 100 miles? Wax is a solid lubricant and gets forced out of the bearing area by pressure, and doesn't flow back in because it's solid, not liquid.

[JStonebarger]

Originally Posted by fmradio516

This is good to know. Ill probably go waxed if this is the case. I only ride offroad on my mountain bike, so i can just use reg lube on that, and then wax my pavement buddies.

Wax has some advantages in dirt, too. In cyclocross I'm impressed by how much less crap the chain collects. One trip through a sand pit was enough to sell me.

[Dave]

I'm sure that pure paraffin will be the cleanest lube, but I also suspect that most users are riding with no lube at all, before they take the chain off for another hot dip. If you want the cleanest chain, then pure paraffin dissolved in naptha would be far more convenient than hot dipping.

As more oil is mixed with paraffin, the more it starts to act like a grease and the less clean it becomes. I get a little black residue deposited on my sprockets and RD pulleys after 500 miles, but it's very minor compared to any oily lube I've ever used. If you run your fingers along the chain, after some use, you will get some minor dark material on your fingers, but it is dry. I put a very small amount of naptha on a paper shop towel and wipe the chain occasionally by turning the cranks backwards, to remove some of the excess wax that pushes it's way out.

[gemship]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

huh? 2 of the 3 mileage reports were under the 300 miles MSW states for rewaxing. One of them was less than half the 300. So I'm not quite sure how that can be considered bragging. I posted b/c I'm interested in hearing real world reports of what kind of mileage people are getting - especially dirt miles.

It sounds decent to me but I'm no expert. Maybe your not doing it right?...or using the same great stuff. Or the stuff you got is defective? Have you tried watching a video on how to do it? I know it sounds silly but you never know.

Honestly from a dirt riding perspective I think the knowledge base of this forum might actually be lacking...despite the myriad of brainiacs.

[Rusty Luggs]

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/fast...ves-you-money/