Re-connection 11S and 12S Campagnolo chains

[oldpotatoe]

From Campagnolo NA...with 10s chains, supplied pin needed to be installed into ‘virgin’ outer plates. No pushing pin out and then new pin in=broken chain there a high probability.
NOW with ‘peened pin’ 11s and 12s Campagnolo chains. When installed chain removed for cleaning...split 180 degrees from original pin, clean and then install with new pin, peened even tho not ‘virgin’ outer plates. MUST be new pin and peened with an appropriate tool. Still think a master/quick link is more better but...new 11s or 12s peened pin ok.

For info.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Thanks for that nugget.

Yeah I’m at the stage in life where all new info learned forces something out the other end, so I keep it simple with the KMC master links.

[jpritchet74]

Originally Posted by Spaghetti Legs

Thanks for that nugget.

Yeah I’m at the stage in life where all new info learned forces something out the other end, so I keep it simple with the KMC master links.

Yup. Or the Connex links.

[Charles M]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

From Campagnolo NA...with 10s chains, supplied pin needed to be installed into ‘virgin’ outer plates. No pushing pin out and then new pin in=broken chain there a high probability.
NOW with ‘peened pin’ 11s and 12s Campagnolo chains. When installed chain removed for cleaning...split 180 degrees from original pin, clean and then install with new pin, peened even tho not ‘virgin’ outer plates. MUST be new pin and peened with an appropriate tool. Still think a master/quick link is more better but...new 11s or 12s peened pin ok.

For info.

Yessir.

The new 12 speed stuff is so flat/tight tolerance that I'm surprised it didnt require a new tool to make the pin flat enough...

[93KgBike]

Originally Posted by Spaghetti Legs

Thanks for that nugget.

Yeah I’m at the stage in life where all new info learned forces something out the other end, so I keep it simple with the KMC master links.

Originally Posted by pritchet74

Yup. Or the Connex links.

22 years ago, I took my future wife on a scenic mtb ride that was about 40ish miles of ridge riding with a pretty severe climb out before the ride home. My chain broke on the first step, and she was impressed when I pulled out my mini breaker and got us riding in under 5 minutes. My chain broke 4 more times... by the time we got out I had 5 of my 8 gears left from shortening the chain, and my future wife laughing out loud.

One can't have too many links, imho. Fill me up a drawer.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

22 years ago, I took my future wife on a scenic mtb ride that was about 40ish miles of ridge riding with a pretty severe climb out before the ride home. My chain broke on the first step, and she was impressed when I pulled out my mini breaker and got us riding in under 5 minutes. My chain broke 4 more times... by the time we got out I had 5 of my 8 gears left from shortening the chain, and my future wife laughing out loud.

One can't have too many links, imho. Fill me up a drawer.

Wha?? Gotta ask what was going on on any chain that broke 5 times in one ride..1997....8s..pretty sophisticated by 1997..

[93KgBike]

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

22 years ago, I took my future wife on a scenic mtb ride that was about 40ish miles of ridge riding with a pretty severe climb out before the ride home. My chain broke on the first step, and she was impressed when I pulled out my mini breaker and got us riding in under 5 minutes. My chain broke 4 more times... by the time we got out I had 5 of my 8 gears left from shortening the chain, and my future wife laughing out loud.

One can't have too many links, imho. Fill me up a drawer.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Wha?? Gotta ask what was going on on any chain that broke 5 times in one ride..1997....8s..pretty sophisticated by 1997..

well, I replaced the broken pin by cannibalizing a pin from the chain itself and then using that pin and the pin pusher to push it back in to repair the break.

as you pointed out in this thread, campy has clear reasons for its warning.

in my story, I should have made it clearer, for you, that it was my trailside wrenching, pushing those darn pins in, that lead to the subsequent failures of the chain.

and as implied by campy, even those of us that do this at a bench 'correctly', in this case, should not.

my wife was laughing, because all my chain-breaking and fixing was NOT working & failing again and again and again, but I refused to just walk home.

the reason the chain broke in the 1st place was because I had quads of pure American steel, and sophisticated or not, I wore stuff out.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

well, I replaced the broken pin by cannibalizing a pin from the chain itself and then using that pin and the pin pusher to push it back in to repair the break.

as you pointed out in this thread, campy has clear reasons for its warning.

in my story, I should have made it clearer, for you, that it was my trailside wrenching, pushing those darn pins in, that lead to the subsequent failures of the chain.

and as implied by campy, even those of us that do this at a bench 'correctly', in this case, should not.

my wife was laughing, because all my chain-breaking and fixing was NOT working & failing again and again and again, but I refused to just walk home.

the reason the chain broke in the 1st place was because I had quads of pure American steel, and sophisticated or not, I wore stuff out.

HA, thanks..I resemble that remark..I don't ask for directions either..

[ultraman6970]

Dude had to impress the girl... I would have done the same

Looks like the missing link way is the simplest and safest. Personally never used the pin since the invention of those missing links back like in 1986 maybe when shimano came up with them. Believe it or not I still have that 1st link I ever saw in my chains stuff tiny plastic bin. This one came in a 105sc group my dad got me in a trip to Japan, the group was just getting in the market.

Shimano used to make stuff, tried them in the lower groups and then rolled them over up to the more fancy groups because after 105sc the ultegra group showed up a few weeks later with the same improvements.

[lavi]

+1 on the connex or any speed link!

I now have Camp 12 on a bike. I attempted to install the chain (how hard can it be?) with a chain tool supposed to be able to handle Campy 12 and peen stuff. Whatever. I completely screwed it up. I was already NOT a fan of Campy's chain connecting "system". I also was not about to run out and either buy a Campy brand chain tool (expensive) or another connector pin rig.

So I grabbed a Sram Eagle Powerlock (this was a year ago before other stuff was available). I was a bit worried about small width differences. I put it on anyhow. From what I can tell (sound and shifting performance), everything works perfectly. And it's the pretty rainbow color. Lol. I had the bike in a shop while I was looking at other stuff. I caught a few of the shop guys "admiring" my wrenching skills...specifically my non-Campy chain joinery.

I'm sure this is somewhat cringe-worthy.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by lavi

+1 on the connex or any speed link!

I now have Camp 12 on a bike. I attempted to install the chain (how hard can it be?) with a chain tool supposed to be able to handle Campy 12 and peen stuff. Whatever. I completely screwed it up. I was already NOT a fan of Campy's chain connecting "system". I also was not about to run out and either buy a Campy brand chain tool (expensive) or another connector pin rig.

So I grabbed a Sram Eagle Powerlock (this was a year ago before other stuff was available). I was a bit worried about small width differences. I put it on anyhow. From what I can tell (sound and shifting performance), everything works perfectly. And it's the pretty rainbow color. Lol. I had the bike in a shop while I was looking at other stuff. I caught a few of the shop guys "admiring" my wrenching skills...specifically my non-Campy chain joinery.

I'm sure this is somewhat cringe-worthy.

The sram eagle quick link fits the Campy chain better than any other. I have one bike with the eagle 12 and one with the slightly wider KMC 12. Whenever Wipperman gets their 12 speed link out, I'll try it. In 2009 when 11 speed came out, I used a 10 speed Wipperman links for about 8,000 miles with no problem and that link was a sloppy fit.

[cgolvin]

As someone preparing to do their first 12 speed install and chain joinery, I appreciate these insights very much. I, alas, own neither the Campy nor the pretty Abbey chain tool and will rely on a Park CT-4.3 (fingers crossed).

I was discussing this the other day with my wheel guy who is a much more 'by-the-book' guy than OP, and he warned about the very tight tolerances in 12 speed, said connectors were a no-go. But he reported that, per his Campy rep, they plan to finally release their own quick link. Anyone else heard this scuttlebutt and, if so, by when?

Edit: OP, I always appreciate a 3 Stooges reference, thanks.

[lavi]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

Park CT-4.3

Guessing that'd work as it's more substantial than the tool I used. Again, I opted for the much less expensive 12s Sram link.

With easily over 1k miles on the system, shifting (Campy 12s SR) is bang on with zero issues. Before riding on the road I listening for any odd sounds as I was def worried about any possible width variance. Heard nothing but the sound of my smile.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Dave

The sram eagle quick link fits the Campy chain better than any other. I have one bike with the eagle 12 and one with the slightly wider KMC 12. Whenever Wipperman gets their 12 speed link out, I'll try it. In 2009 when 11 speed came out, I used a 10 speed Wipperman links for about 8,000 miles with no problem and that link was a sloppy fit.

Once upon a time, many moons ago(actually 2000)...when Campag went to 10s...and the gig wth 'permana-link' then links+chain pin to re-connect..we sold and used a LOT of sram 9s 'gold' links on otherwise 10s systems and they worked fine and dandy too.

But he reported that, per his Campy rep, they plan to finally release their own quick link. Anyone else heard this scuttlebutt and, if so, by when?

Haven't 'heard' this but wouldn't be surprised. Campag actually DID have a 'link' system, 'permalink' that was difficult to install(special tool) and made clicking noise on 100% of the installs...see 'sram gold 9slink', above.

Master link type gigs have been around almost as long as chains..

[bikinchris]

I always avoided using replacement pins. Not just in Campy but Shimano too. Snap together links are just safer.