Compared to vintage Serotta steel and Ti bikes, Italian bikes be like...?

[Flinch]

Just getting into road bikes in a semi-serious way, and I've got a 1996 CSI with a steel fork, and a 2002 Concours Ti Serotta with a carbon fork. Both have triple cranks, and are shod with Conti GP 5000s. I don't race, I ride (all my local competitors are too young, and I don't want to crush their tender egos at age 72). Target is 100 miles/week (last week 125 for example).

The Concours rides like a Porsche, while the CSI is more like a Mercedes, if I may draw an automotive comparison - having never driven either car. Since my only other road bikes are a 1983 Dawes Atlanta, 1985 Nishiki Prestige, and a late 90's steel Edge Cycles, I have no experience with Italian vintage bikes, or other higher end steel/Ti bikes of similar vintage.

So for all you current or former Serotta riders, what am I missing, or not? Compare and contrast the handling, comfort, geometry, and ride quality with << Insert bike name here>>. You have 5 minutes to complete your report, be brief, and complete using the supplied #2 pencil.

[mhespenheide]

If you're going to go down that rabbit hole, you shouldn't try to group (stereotype) all of the Italian makers together. An Atala from that era might have had parallel 74/74 seat tube and head tube angles with a correspondingly tight wheelbase, while a Bianchi might have had 72/73 angles and longer wheelbase. Colnago fanboys would have been incensed at you trying to generalize their bikes with De Rosas, and the few guys riding Cinellis would have waxed poetic about the stability that came from their lower bottom bracket heights.

If there is such a thing as "Italian Stage Race geometry", it was more a bit relaxed than American geometry tended to be, but Serottas were closer to that than a Schwinn or Trek (a racing model Trek, at least) or Cannondale of the time. But there was plenty of variation inside "Italian", as I pointed out above.

[vespasianus]

Just being made in Italy (ie, Italian), having an Italian name, being made with Italian tubes, does not make a good bike.

I have Italian made bikes that I love and Italian made bikes I just never got along with -but looked beautiful!

With all that said, there are great Italian builders out there that can make you a custom steel, titanium or carbon bike that will ride great. But it will ride great because of the builder not the country.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Just being made in Italy (ie, Italian), having an Italian name, being made with Italian tubes, does not make a good bike.

I have Italian made bikes that I love and Italian made bikes I just never got along with -but looked beautiful!

With all that said, there are great Italian builders out there that can make you a custom steel, titanium or carbon bike that will ride great. But it will ride great because of the builder not the country.

Indeed...even those made in Belgium by some guy other than who's name is on the downtime..like, say, Merckx?
I've known people who love and those who don't love just about every bike frame brand out there...The same bike...

Buy a dreamy looking Euro-rig and report back...Make sure it has Campagnolo tho, or you lose points..

[AngryScientist]

since you think one of your bikes rides like a porsche and one rides like a mercedes, and you have not driven either car; you can safely conclude that some italian bikes ride like ferraris and some ride like fiats.

[NHAero]

I had the same itch and ended up buying a 1989 Casati with TSX tubes and which had been upgraded with Campy 10. I put 1,000 miles on it in a bit under a year, switching off with a Firefly that I also bought used. The Casati weighed 4 pounds more but average speed was the same (I live in a 35 ft per mile place, pretty flat). Most measurements were very similar except the Casati had slightly steeper angles and a very short fork offset so trail was over 60mm, so it felt more stable but really hardly noticeable. After the year I had scratched the itch and sold it on, because I don't need two pure road bikes, but I really enjoyed the bike. It was red and chrome, can't get more Italian than that!

[bigbill]

In the early to mid 90s, you could get an "Italian" bike such as a Quattro Assi for <$1,000 for frame/fork. They were good race bikes with terrible paint; most guys got one or two seasons out of them before they would rust out from the inside.

Casati, Faggin, Miele, Colnago, Pinarello, Torpado, and others produced great bikes that rode well but it's hard to broadbrush and say they all had the same ride. Merckx liked bikes that "went well in a straight line." I have an MX Leader that is a cruise missile on the road, especially on descents, but it's not a bike I'd choose for a criterium.

[Flinch]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

since you think one of your bikes rides like a porsche and one rides like a mercedes, and you have not driven either car; you can safely conclude that some italian bikes ride like ferraris and some ride like fiats.

Good point, although I have been a passenger in both. Actually I HAVE driven a Ferrari (1963 250 Spyder, scary fast on Texas highways! ), and a Fiat. Prefer the Ferarri.

[ERK55]

An acquaintance gave me a ride in his Ferrari 812 Superfast (6.5L V12, 788 hp).
15 minutes was enough for me to get the idea. Driving in a suburban area, the violent acceleration/ braking was enough to cause whiplash.
Don’t think you could compare it to a bicycle, Italian or otherwise.

[vespasianus]

If you really want a smaller brand Italian bike, and are close to the Philadelphia region, ERA pro bikes, is your place to go. They deal with Tommasini, Daccordi, Brixia, Moser and Casati bikes among others. I don't think they do the Bianchi, Colnago, Pinarello type stuff.

Me, I have always loved the look of old steel Colnago's and de Rosa's but never got along with the ride. I personally find many of the Tommasini's to look homely but ride wonderfully, which is why I have two!

[happycampyer]

Wait, what?!? Serotta isn’t Italian?!?

[Waldo62]

Miele is Canadian...

snip:

Originally Posted by bigbill

Casati, Faggin, Miele, Colnago, Pinarello, Torpado, and others produced great bikes that rode well but it's hard to broadbrush and say they all had the same ride.

[Spaghetti Legs]

I have not owned or ridden a Serotta (but would like to!), however I own and have ridden several classic Italian steel bikes of the 80’s and 90’s as well as other steel marques (Ritchey, Merckx come to mind). In general, a quality steel bike built by any of the masters, regardless of nationality, is a good thing. If I had to ride an Italian steel bike, sight unseen, and it’s the only bike I’d ever get to ride again, it would be a Tommasini or a Carrera.

[jamesdak]

Well to be honest I've had both a Nova Special and a CSI and have let them both go. The Nova never struck me as anything all the special on the road. The CSI was fine ride that I thoroughly enjoyed yet was able to eventually pass it on.

In comparison I've had close to 70 different steel rides now over the past decade and a half.

The all time favorite and one I'll never let go is my first Giordana XL Super. It is Italian built......with French Excell tubing......for a North American company. So does it really have a Nationality, who knows? What is does have is the best road feel of any bike I've ever had under me and that is what it's all about.

Quality bikes come from all countries, but Italy sure does have quite the history and everyone should try a few of them out.

Let's say I just have to reduce my current collection of 32 bikes down to 5 right now. How many would be Italians.....hmmm.....

XL Super mentioned above, that's the easy one. Although, is it Italian?
The Kirk Terraplane would stay but I could let the Kirk built Fishlips go -USA
The Paletti stays -Italian
Fuji OPUS III stays- Japanese
The Pinarello stays - Italian
UGH....
The Davidson stays - USA
The Coppi stays-Italian
Custom Lemond GP&GS stays (how could it not?) - USA
The Merckx, Freire's (maybe) Olmo, Motta, and the Krapf I'm still building. How could I let those go when they may prove magical on the road. That's a Belgium and three more Italians.

So, what have we learned? I just CANNOT get down to only 5 bikes and the country of origin means nothing.

Now go get an Italian bike and enjoy the heck out of it. None of these needs to make sense and the itch will never go away until you scratch it.