How to train to get longer & lower on the bike?

[Turkle]

Hello, all. I've been participating in some faster group rides now that my leg is healing, and it has come to my attention that Virginia gets extremely windy. There is also much less heavy traffic on the roads here, which means that I don't need to peer over the tops of SUVs quite so much. And finally, most embarrassingly, I'm getting dropped by faster riders on the flats, and I think a lot of it is due to my position on the bike. (Some of it is fitness, of course, but we all know the easiest way to get faster on the bike is getting more aero.)

What all this means is that for the above 3 reasons - wind, less traffic, and holding speed on the flats - I would like to work on getting my position on the bike lower and longer. I'd like your advice on how to train for this.

My bars are currently about 3cm below my saddle and I use a short 90mm stem. This was my setup for centuries and such, I can basically ride on this all day with no neck and shoulder pain. Much lower, and my neck really starts to feel it, I think.

Those of you who have trained to get lower and longer on the bike, I'd love your thoughts on how to achieve this goal without permanently screwing up my neck! Thank you for reading and any advice you can offer.

[deluz]

One thought is core training.
I have chronic back issues and my PT started me on some exercises.
Seemed to have helped and I feel I can drop lower on my bars without discomfort.

[m_sasso]

Victor talked about some of his training for TT in these two videos and many of the exercises and stretching are transferrable to a standard road position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqlt...torCampenaerts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn5w...torCampenaerts

[echelon_john]

Ride lots.

[Turkle]

Originally Posted by echelon_john

Ride lots.

Well yes, thank you for the flippant remark, but I was hoping for something a little more systematic than that.

[KonaSS]

Here is where I would start:

1. Get a good bike fit by someone who knows what they are doing if you haven't already. Make sure you discuss with them your goals being more efficient and aero as possible. (not just longer and lower)

2. Shorter cranks can help. If you are going this route, do before number 1.

3. Strong core is important, but you don't need to be jacked if you have number 1 dialed. Find a core routine, and/or do this 3 times a week https://youtu.be/4BOTvaRaDjI

4. Practice riding in your position - do it while pedaling hard and pedaling easy. But do it intentionally.

[prototoast]

1) work on core strength off the bike
2) adjust your position gradually (drop your stem down by 5mm, adjust, get a 10mm longer stem, adjust, etc.)
3) practice deliberately holding the lower position--races/fast group rides are the best, but even riding solo, make a deliberate effort to stay in a position for X minutes at a time (work your way up to it)
4) work with a professional bike fitter.

[mlc]

Ride lots may be flippant, but in my experience it's true. I started stretching semi-regularly and it made a huge difference as well. Loosening up the hammies got me in a much more aggressive position quite quickly with no back pain at all

[Mark McM]

Getting narrower can be as important as getting lower. This is why the pros are using narrow handlebars these days.

Shorter cranks can reduce the hip angle, allowing one to get lower.

As stated above, a well adjusted fit is important. One of the most important dimensions is saddle setback. A longer setback can sometimes be more comfortable and efficient for long distance cycling, but a shorter setback can often allow a more aggressive forward position.

[lavi]

Do a plank for 1 minute. Do it daily. Take Sunday off.

Easy peasy.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by Turkle

Hello, all. I've been participating in some faster group rides now that my leg is healing, and it has come to my attention that Virginia gets extremely windy. There is also much less heavy traffic on the roads here, which means that I don't need to peer over the tops of SUVs quite so much. And finally, most embarrassingly, I'm getting dropped by faster riders on the flats, and I think a lot of it is due to my position on the bike. (Some of it is fitness, of course, but we all know the easiest way to get faster on the bike is getting more aero.)

What all this means is that for the above 3 reasons - wind, less traffic, and holding speed on the flats - I would like to work on getting my position on the bike lower and longer. I'd like your advice on how to train for this.

My bars are currently about 3cm below my saddle and I use a short 90mm stem. This was my setup for centuries and such, I can basically ride on this all day with no neck and shoulder pain. Much lower, and my neck really starts to feel it, I think.

Those of you who have trained to get lower and longer on the bike, I'd love your thoughts on how to achieve this goal without permanently screwing up my neck! Thank you for reading and any advice you can offer.

If you are getting dropped on group rides it is highly unlikely it is because of you not having a long/low enough position.

On the flats, you should be close enough and positioned right relative to the rider in front of you such that you are not taking much if any wind.

If you are getting dropped during the front to back rotation, you're pulling too hard on the front and not getting back in line efficiently.

So, if it is really about group rides, long/low is not really a solution you need to be pursuing, unless you are truly in a faster-backwards position right now or are unable to get good efficient muscle engagement in your current position.

If it is really about wanting to go faster for solo efforts or TTs, there are other things to look at.. Like a response above said, long/low is less important than narrow/tight when it comes to aero for someone out in the wind. I'll add that clothes and helmet make a huge difference too.

Of course getting stronger is always good. I'm just doubting that your position on the bike is responsible for your performance on a group ride.

[Philster]

I second the narrow bar suggestion. Maybe also a moderate turn in for your shifters. The fastest position is with your forearms parallel to the ground, so concentrate on finding a fit that allows you to reach and hold that position. I'm definitely not an expert, but this has worked for me.

[callmeishmael]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

One of the most important dimensions is saddle setback. A longer setback can sometimes be more comfortable and efficient for long distance cycling, but a shorter setback can often allow a more aggressive forward position.

This is important. For 3hr + rides, I need decent setback to unweight my hands, but with less setback, I can get lower. However, the power needed to create sufficient 'upthrust' isn't sustainable for that time. I'd need significantly more power and/or core work to do that.

[Philster]

Originally Posted by callmeishmael

This is important. For 3hr + rides, I need decent setback to unweight my hands, but with less setback, I can get lower. However, the power needed to create sufficient 'upthrust' isn't sustainable for that time. I'd need significantly more power and/or core work to do that.

Very interesting. Do actually move your saddle to suit the ride or just find a position in the middle?

[Waldo62]

Yoga.