Jan Heine - knives out for side knobs

[rallizes]

"I was not prepared for the Pegoretti's lack of acceleration."

[litcrazy]

It seems like we need to engage Jan as to his actually argument if we’re going down this route. Jan does point out for mud and snow you definitely want knobs… just not side knobs.

He goes after semi slick tires with smooth centers and side knobs that are designed to kick in on turns.

In most of the challenging conditions folks brings up, I imagine he’d immediately point you to their full knobby. This seems to align with my experience.

The harder question is where the more common lightly knobbed tires fit into this calculation. I’ve had good luck with Gravelking sk s and schwalbe allrounds. I’ve thought about trying the bytes as they’ve tested faster with more tread.. which aligns with some of Jan’s claims about knobs.

Perhaps the best case for side knobs is if riding with cushcore core or the like, can you drop your pressure enough to get bite on a long muddy stretch. But I lean towards light knobs now as I said.

[tomato coupe]

Rene Herse tires swept the podiums at the first major gravel race of 2023, The Mid South: 1st, 2nd, 6th, 9th and 12th places among the women, as well as 4th among the men.

I think it's more accurate to say that Rene Herse tires were swept from the men's podium. But, let's not have reality get in the way of a good sales pitch.

[jcs7282]

Originally Posted by Eli Bingham

Bike Snob NYC fell off really hard in recent years, but his take on RH is pure gold: "It seems to me that Rene Herse and Ultradynamico sum up the boutique tire marketplace perfectly. Basically, they’re the same tires made by the same company, and the only meaningful difference is whether you prefer to buy them from someone who’s extremely anal retentive or from someone who’s almost painfully ironic.”

First - that's funny ^ and, second, I love me some RH/Compass tires, and most of the time I run standard casing SBHs on my gravel bike. Yes, they have shortcomings (sidewall puncture resistance, or lack thereof; price), and yes, the brand is insufferable (that is IMO), but I like the way the tires ride, and the relative fragility of the sidewalls is not a major issue for me.

Anyway - back to the main point about RH-related humor: if you are not familiar with the Instagram account bicyclepubes (yes, you read that correctly), he's a must follow. The guy is absolutely hilarious (again, IMO; disclaimer - I have a very juvenile, basic sense of humor) and frequently goes after RH/JH. He had some material on that absurd rear derailleur that was recently launched that had me laughing out loud at my IG feed. YMMV but worth mentioning in the context of RH-related humor.

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

I think it's more accurate to say that Rene Herse tires were swept from the men's podium. But, let's not have reality get in the way of a good sales pitch.

100%. If you followed the men's race you know that there were 8 men in a group that went into a singletrack section close the finish. In the singletrack, the top three got a gap on the rest of the group. Now, at least 2 of those front two have lots of off-road experience, but all 3 had tires with at least a side knob. Wonder if 4th place on RH wished for some side knob?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKt8...st=WL&index=20

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by jcs7282

First - that's funny ^ and, second, I love me some RH/Compass tires, and most of the time I run standard casing SBHs on my gravel bike. Yes, they have shortcomings (sidewall puncture resistance, or lack thereof; price), and yes, the brand is insufferable (that is IMO), but I like the way the tires ride, and the relative fragility of the sidewalls is not a major issue for me.

Anyway - back to the main point about RH-related humor: if you are not familiar with the Instagram account bicyclepubes (yes, you read that correctly), he's a must follow. The guy is absolutely hilarious (again, IMO; disclaimer - I have a very juvenile, basic sense of humor) and frequently goes after RH/JH. He had some material on that absurd rear derailleur that was recently launched that had me laughing out loud at my IG feed. YMMV but worth mentioning in the context of RH-related humor.

this is where I am as well. I did try the gravel kings and thought they were inferior. But I also find the RH branding insufferable now a days

[Vertical]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Well, I place a lot of stock in your opinions regarding Marin trails. I notice you didn't offer one here. Would you ride knobless tires in the Marin Headlands/Tam area under normal (dry) conditions?

I was riding their 650x48 filetread down an east facing steep road when my tires couldn't grip to slow down, so I had to bail into a ditch next to a berm to stop. Not fun. Then limped back home across the Golden Gate Bridge. Never again on the front, but I do ride their knob front and slick rear and like that combo.

[bigbill]

I used 38mm Gravel Kings for every gravel ride/race until I moved to AZ. The desert washes require some side knobs. I still have a box of new GK's.

[makoti]

Originally Posted by charliedid

The course was dry, add a couple inches of slippery mud and get back to me...

I always thought that this was the reason - to grab at the stuff around your tires as you go through deeper stuff. Like deeper mud.

[prototoast]

Jan Heine, defending his thesis.



But once again, this is another excellent troll job on his part. The post is really just a race recap, but he frames it as a contrarian take on bicycle tech, so it gets more engagement.

[nmrt]

I'm sorry, I do not want tires that came 4th. I want what the 1st, 2nd,and 3rd men were riding.

[shoota]

I'm not sure I can agree with this.

In my experience I went from 38mm Patherfinder Pros (side knobs) to 42mm Pathfinder S-Works (smooth) and could immediately tell some difference in cornering traction. (And my home roads are literally the Mid South course)

[lavi]

Originally Posted by rallizes

"I was not prepared for the Pegoretti's lack of acceleration."

Lol. Funny. And yes, Jan will never live that down.



RE the tires: I like RH tires. I run them on all my bikes. As to knobs or no knobs, I don't really know.



Ted King, who sorta can pedal a bike, seems to agree on the no knobs take:

Seriously though, tires. They’re important. If you’re interested, here are my two cents.

Knobby tires are great. They serve a purpose and that’s to provide traction when grip is available by “biting” into the ground. Soft ground, wet ground, snowy conditions, lots of (but not all) muddy conditions, etc. Knobbies are specially helpful when you’re frequently cornering, going up or down steep hills, or are doing a lot of accelerations. But if you’re riding concrete-hard terra firma, there’s no place for the knobs to grab. They don’t dig in. They can’t bite. As a result, you actually have less surface area on the ground than if you were riding a wide slick.

I’ve been running some big ol’ slicks for many years now and think it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread. You can drop your tire pressure considerably, without sacrificing speed or efficiency, despite what intuition might tell you. Plus, there’s the added bonus of a more comfortable ride. Additional tip: find a good tire pressure guide — I’ve relied on @SRAMroad’s most often which lets you account for lots of variables.

I rode @reneherse 700x44 Snoqualmie Pass in my first @midsouthgravel four years ago and feel like I was the only person out there on slicks then. I rode the same tire this past weekend and at one point excitedly hollered to the folks around me because there were three of us in a row all on the same set of rubber. It’s the perfect tire perfect for that course in dry conditions and it’s really cool to see wide slicks catch on.

Because mud can be such a thing in Stillwater, I’d probably run a 35mm Bon Jon Pass for the mud clearance in those peanut butter conditions. There are lots of courses that demand knobbies and there are many great options but I have nothing but confidence on slicks here in Oklahoma.

[shoota]

Originally Posted by lavi

Ted King, who sorta can pedal a bike, seems to agree on the no knobs take:

He most definitely was the only one on slicks four years ago, I remember it well.

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by lavi

Ted King, who sorta can pedal a bike, seems to agree on the no knobs take:

I am not saying he is completely wrong. But also important to note that he is sponsored by RH.