Nutty new SRAM AXS derailleur tech

[bicycletricycle]

I need to adjust my derailleur but my phones OS is too old so I have to get a new phone to get my bicycle working....... wow, exciting

[EB]

Originally Posted by yinzerniner

Probably going to need either 3d printed or machined dropouts, like those from Paragon or something similar to below:

I believe the issue with the existing Paragon dropouts is that they are asymmetrical, which sets the seat stays different distances from center - they look crooked no matter what you do.

You can use a 3D printed solution, but they have to be size-specific and then you're looking at a very high cost per unit for a small builder.

[madsciencenow]

Is the evolution of biking groupos supposed to make me want to continue to ride my bike or what is the point of all the change? Like if you obsolete my frame and old group you are making me want to quit the sport. YMMV and that's fine but I'm just tired of all the change as it's not really making improvements that matter to me.

[rothwem]

Originally Posted by madsciencenow

Is the evolution of biking groupos supposed to make me want to continue to ride my bike or what is the point of all the change? Like if you obsolete my frame and old group you are making me want to quit the sport. YMMV and that's fine but I'm just tired of all the change as it's not really making improvements that matter to me.

Ugh this is kinda my thinking too. Who the **** cares about this ****? I just want to keep my bike working correctly so I can ride it. Sram, please keep making your medium/low end 11-speed mechanical stuff and please don't increase the price.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

This new MTB stuff is wild. The direct-mount, modular derailleur is genius, and is a legitimate leap forward in technical evolution for the rear derailleur: https://escapecollective.cc/sram-xx-...ar-derailleur/

Markedly cleaner/faster shifting (especially under severe load), more robust drivetrain, no limit screws, very beepbeepboopboop. You can guarantee we'll be seeing this on road drivetrains soon enough...my only question is (cue the lolsramfrontmech crowd) - will it work with 2x?

From BikeRumor:

"This leads to an important point: Transmission shifts slower than Eagle AXS.

Each shift is very intentional. If you tap the shift button several times really quickly, the derailleur will perform one shift at a time, pause for half a second, then execute the next shift. It’s weird, but it works. I’ll have a full ride report soon and cover this in more detail but suffice it to say you can shift at any time and it won’t hesitate, but you can’t just smash through five gears at once either."

Sounds great.

[John H.]

Funny you show Campy stuff and reference Escape collective. I also heard Ronan McGlaughlin say that Campy 12 is a good away to make a good mechanic feel very average about adjustment skills-

Originally Posted by Mark McM

In a word, no. The Escape Collective article that waxes profound about the elimination of the derailleur hanger fails to realize the function of the hanger. The hanger creates an offset from the axle to the derailleur top pivot, and this offset allows the derailleur to pivot up and down with respect to the cassette. This in turn allows the derailleur jockey (top) pulley to follow the changes in sprocket size, helping to maintain a constant chain gap between pulley and sprocket. 1x derailleurs can use other means to maintain a constant chain gap, including using a large jockey pulley offset (offset from the cage pivot to the jockey pulley). But while these mechanisms can account for changes in sprocket size as the derailleur moves from one sprocket to another, they can't account for changes in chainring sizes when shifting in the front. If you look at recent derailleurs for 2x drivetrains, such as the Campagnolo derailleru below, you'll see that these designs add an extra arm between the derailleur mounting bolt and top pivot, increasing the offset between the axle and top pivot.



In contrast, this is a Campagnolo 1x rear derailleur:



Comparing the two derailleurs, you can see that the 2x derailleur has an extended top pivot offset but only a modest jockey pulley offset, whereas the 1x derailleur has no top pivot offset extension but an extended jockey pulley offset. The new SRAM derailleur has an extended jockey pulley offset, and by removing the hanger they reduced the top pivot offset to zero. The new SRAM derailleur may work great with a 1x drivetrain, but it would work poorly with a 2x drivetrain.

[John H.]

I also like that they integrated replaceable protective bits on the derailleur. They should do that with all groups and figure out a way to do that for road shifters!

[lavi]

I dunno. While I'm not pleased that new gear pushes old gear out of the way, I do like that Sram is regularly pushing the envelop by what they come out with. I ain't mad at them. What else am I supposed to spend my kids' college funds on?

Also, is that a pube in the cassette in the OP? Yes, like Hambini, I'm aged 12.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

From BikeRumor:

"This leads to an important point: Transmission shifts slower than Eagle AXS.

Each shift is very intentional. If you tap the shift button several times really quickly, the derailleur will perform one shift at a time, pause for half a second, then execute the next shift. It’s weird, but it works. I’ll have a full ride report soon and cover this in more detail but suffice it to say you can shift at any time and it won’t hesitate, but you can’t just smash through five gears at once either."

Sounds great.

This is so that you do not need a slower SKU for ebikes.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by lavi

Also, is that a pube in the cassette in the OP? Yes, like Hambini, I'm aged 12.

uh------ you're off by about 7 years

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by Old School

This is so that you do not need a slower SKU for ebikes.

But there are some things about the system I really like - the robustness for example. The plug and play nature of the system. SRAM is pushing the envelop for sure, and that is good thing.

The other thing I wonder is if you buy a bike that runs this, are you locked into SRAM?

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

But there are some things about the system I really like - the robustness for example. The plug and play nature of the system. SRAM is pushing the envelop for sure, and that is good thing.

The other thing I wonder is if you buy a bike that runs this, are you locked into SRAM?

No, you're not locked in. The AXS RD has a direct mount hanger, but the SRAM UDH system uses the item below as a replaceable hanger for any rear mech:
https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/udh


It's honestly a cool idea, as long as bike manufacturers decide on adopting it full out. Makes it way easier to replace a hanger, and tolerances/fitments for the rear DS dropout are standardized. Kind of similar to how Shimano's cassette spline pattern took over.

Originally Posted by vespasianus

From BikeRumor:

"This leads to an important point: Transmission shifts slower than Eagle AXS.

Each shift is very intentional. If you tap the shift button several times really quickly, the derailleur will perform one shift at a time, pause for half a second, then execute the next shift. It’s weird, but it works. I’ll have a full ride report soon and cover this in more detail but suffice it to say you can shift at any time and it won’t hesitate, but you can’t just smash through five gears at once either."

Sounds great.

What Bikerumor fails to mention is that the primary shift is very fast and very smooth. In the EC article they mention how the shifting is faster and smoother, even under power, vs Shimano 12s HG+ which up to now was the gold standard. However, the action described is more that you can't shift multiple gears up or down, so it's not the best for gravel or road probably.
https://youtu.be/QzeHBTXBWsc?t=830

But yeah, man the price of entry is pretty nuts.

[mcteague]

Peak Torque has a rather negative take on the new design. I too wonder how carbon will hold up to impacts now that the sacrificial hanger is out of the equation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDxgxHiijF0

Tim

[oldpotatoe]

GAD ZOOKS!!


[/QUOTE]

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

This new MTB stuff is wild. The direct-mount, modular derailleur is genius, and is a legitimate leap forward in technical evolution

it's interesting, sure - but a "legit leap forward" ??

c'mon? it's a thing that hangs off the back of the bike that moves the chain up and down the cassette. eliminating the need for a RD would be a leap, a new design is a small step IMO