Milano-SanRemo -- who you got? *Spoilers*

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by shoota

What the heck is to not like about him?

That's a great question. Historically I tend to like climber-types rather than sprinter-types, so when MVdP and WVA came up as rivals, I guess I just went with Wout. I've never disliked Mathieu. But it's not until his yellow jersey exploits and this MSR that I've really felt drawn to him as a fan.

If you're a fan, I can easily understand why.

[72gmc]

The latest Cycling Podcast had good observations about the relative sizes of the top four riders. Probably not ideal for Tadej to continue arriving at that long run-in surrounded by locomotives.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

That's a great question. Historically I tend to like climber-types rather than sprinter-types, so when MVdP and WVA came up as rivals, I guess I just went with Wout. I've never disliked Mathieu. But it's not until his yellow jersey exploits and this MSR that I've really felt drawn to him as a fan.

If you're a fan, I can easily understand why.

I don't race anything these days, and definitely not cyclocross, but I love watching it. At the CX worlds this year Van der Poel and Van Aert took off after half a lap to drop the rest of the field, and then attacked each other off and on over the rest of the race. To watch the TV side view of them going up that hill was stunning. Most of the time Van der Poel led, but occasionally Van Aert (if I remember correctly). It wasn't steep, and not overly long, but wow. Just. Wow.

2023 CX WC highlights:

1:05 - up the hill, on the first lap of 10; how fast are they going on those low pressure tires?
1:50 - up the hill again
3:30 - Van Aert goes to the front
3:55 - SPRINT!!!!!!

That finishing sprint, on low pressure tires... Holy Cannoli!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2iwAMj_Y54

It's awesome to watch either of them, and an almost guilty pleasure to watch them compete against each other in a race to which they're both suited and on form.

Originally Posted by lavi

We are lucky bums to get to watch this racing action. What an amazing cast of characters.

This.

[tv_vt]

Originally Posted by lavi

My wife has crushes on Wout, VDP, and Alaphilippe. She was actually engaged watching the last 20k. .

Don't get me started on female tennis players...

PS. I almost thought you were going to say she was actually engaged - to one of them.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by lavi

My wife has crushes on Wout, VDP, and Alaphileppe. She was actually engaged watching the last 20k.

I'd love to see what you mention too. Throw Pidcock in the mix too please.
However, I wonder if Julian has the spark he once had. I sure hope he does!

We are lucky bums to get to watch this racing action. What an amazing cast of characters.

Due to his size Pidcock doesn't have the absolute power (watts) to consistently compete against the likes of Van Aert and Van der Poel in a time trial, sprint, or late race burst, but he does have the watts/kg for longer/steeper climbs. And if there's a long and winding downhill, he gets the edge again. Tradeoffs. Go with your strength, minimize your weaknesses. Nothing new there.

But on any given day...

I'm hoping that they all line up at LBL, along with many of the other top contenders and animators, including Evenepoel.

[Metz]

Originally Posted by reuben

It's awesome to watch either of them, and an almost guilty pleasure to watch them compete against each other in a race to which they're both suited and on form.


This.

My wife and I started watching Euro CX about five years ago and developed our relative crushes on these two based on that. Seeing Wout start on the road and do so well in Strade (2018?) after cramping on the final climb was amazing and then VDP also burst on to the road scene. Wout absolutely dominated CX this season really until the World Championship race. The women are usually more fun to watch and more competitive since it's not just the Wout/VDP show.

If we take away the Australia stuff (in my opinion the parents, kids and VDP all made big mistakes) and just look at the riding I'd say my biggest complaint against VDP is that he has shown a tendency to give up if things aren't going his way and/or he's not feeling great. This goes back to his Junior days. He wears his emotions on his sleeve much more so than Wout - I tease my wife that he's a Dutch Latino (she's Latina) due to all the histrionics after wins. But he's stupendous and just a blast to watch when he's on. As someone else said, when he's 100% he's tough to beat.

As far as Wout I don't see anything that can be criticized other than some questionable tactics - maybe that's due to how strong he is and not having to learn that skill. VDP has gotten much better tactically the last 12-18 months and will continue to beat Wout on certain parcours even if they are on equal form due to that. If you put a guy like Trentin's tactical nous into Wout's brain then he'd be superman. But his ability to win field sprints, rolling Classics, compete at LBL, time trial, win on a mountaintop (Ventoux) and to be a great teammate/domestique is unrivalled. He might not win like Pog (the new Cannibal) but there's also no one like him.

[trener1]

I'm also in the Wout camp.
I think that head to head on the right course MvDP has the slight edge.
But Wouts versatility is just completely unrivaled, what he did in the 2021 Tour Winning a Mountain top stage, then a TT and the the sprint in Paris ( I believe all in 3 days) was just nuts.
Also in last years Tour he basically had the green jersey wrapped on day 1, it wasn't even in doubt.
And what someone else mentioned, he is also a great teammate, blowing the race up for Vingagard on one day, then single handedley dragging vingogard up one of the climbs and away from Pog on another stage etc... is just stuff of legends.
He does however need to win a few more monuments and rainbow jersey

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by trener1

I'm also in the Wout camp.
I think that head to head on the right course MvDP has the slight edge.
But Wouts versatility is just completely unrivaled, what he did in the 2021 Tour Winning a Mountain top stage, then a TT and the the sprint in Paris ( I believe all in 3 days) was just nuts.
Also in last years Tour he basically had the green jersey wrapped on day 1, it wasn't even in doubt.
And what someone else mentioned, he is also a great teammate, blowing the race up for Vingagard on one day, then single handedley dragging vingogard up one of the climbs and away from Pog on another stage etc... is just stuff of legends.
He does however need to win a few more monuments and rainbow jersey

Wout is 100% the better stage racer, and it's not even close. Van der Poel has yet to prove he can make it to the second week of a grand tour without being completely depleted, but Wout keeps winning stages all the way to the end.

Van der Poel seems to be the better one-day racer. They're both always marked riders, but VdP has a stronger acceleration which helps him make the moves, whereas Van Aert seems to have trouble getting away.

[shoota]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

That's a great question. Historically I tend to like climber-types rather than sprinter-types, so when MVdP and WVA came up as rivals, I guess I just went with Wout. I've never disliked Mathieu. But it's not until his yellow jersey exploits and this MSR that I've really felt drawn to him as a fan.

If you're a fan, I can easily understand why.

Hmm, interesting. I don't consider either a sprinter. In fact, that's why I like them both, they can win from anywhere. There just aren't many guys like that and it makes for awesome racing.

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by shoota

Hmm, interesting. I don't consider either a sprinter. In fact, that's why I like them both, they can win from anywhere. There just aren't many guys like that and it makes for awesome racing.

Both are all-arounders, but between the two of them, Mathieu is more of a sprinter and Wout is more of a climber. It's a false dichotomy, but when they came up as a pair, it felt natural to pick one of them to be a fan of and not the other. With a few more years of watching, I'm happy to be a fan of both of them.

[Hilltopwalters]

I would agree with Wout being the more all-around rider compared to MvdP. Part of the joy in the TdF was watching him do all of the things he did. I definitely want to see him win a WC and Roubaix. If nothing else, their rivalry is good sporting (and inspiration) for the rest of us.

[KonaSS]

I like both MvDP and Wout. No need to choose.

But head to head I prefer MvDP to win, because he usually wins in a more spectacular fashion. Where Wout is just gonna out - watt you.

[crankles]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Wout is 100% the better stage racer, and it's not even close. Van der Poel has yet to prove he can make it to the second week of a grand tour without being completely depleted, but Wout keeps winning stages all the way to the end.

Van der Poel seems to be the better one-day racer. They're both always marked riders, but VdP has a stronger acceleration which helps him make the moves, whereas Van Aert seems to have trouble getting away.

To me, It's all by design. Wout transitioned to the road sooner than MVdP and to a road oriented team with road ambitions. He's successful at it since that's where his training has focused. Mathieu went to a much smaller team that would allow his MTB ambition. Alpecin couldn't even get a bid to the tour his first year, no?

So comparing the two in stage races is like trying to compare them in MTB races.

When it comes to one days, Mathieu has the advantage Mano-a mano, and probably for the reasons you describe. Wout needs to win flat like Cancellera of old. Get away and TT it to the finish. If he gets a gap, he's not going to be caught without help if at all. He just can't get away as easily as Maybe Mathieu. but if he can, he's going to be harder to reel in the Mathieu would be...

He won MSR when he was able to latch on to alaphilipe, who just doens't have 200 meter efforts at 1500 gajillion watts.

[Beldar77]

No need to choose as a few have said. that top 4 was great. Throw in pidcock and Roglic ( who does have an LBL victory in a sprint) and it would be great.

But maybe an outsider that I think most enjoy. I love the season Powless has started, including 6th at MSR, and he did win San Sebestian

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by KonaSS

I like both MvDP and Wout. No need to choose.

...and both make a rivalry that is fun to watch. They make each other better.