OT - Patriots, again- say it aint so Bill

[velomonkey]

You think back in 99 when Lance tested positive and came forward with the backdated doctor's note some football site did 15 pages of discussion.

Man, football is big and people really hate the patriots.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by malbecman

My prediction is that the investigative firm hired by the NFL will find evidence of the tampering and the Patriots will throw some poor ball boy/equipment manager under the bus to save face.

MattTucks' response is well put and I agree completely. I've thought all along that this is a league issue. I'd only add that at least one of the officials handled the footballs before and after every play, and should have detected the issue instantly if it was as big of a deal as is being made out to be now. Of course, this assumes that the officials initially inspected the balls as rigourously as they are now saying they did.

If the Pats did knowingly cheat, there should be consequences. But my bet is that at the end of the day, the NFL will determine that while the balls were deflated, there is no evidence as to who deflated them or that Belichek or Brady were involved. The Pats will be given a minor penalty based on a theory of strict liability.

I wonder if there is videotape of the initial inspection of the balls by the officials. This could be very telling.

[Len J]

Originally Posted by malbecman

My prediction is that the investigative firm hired by the NFL will find evidence of the tampering and the Patriots will throw some poor ball boy/equipment manager under the bus to save face.

I think that there will be an attempt to throw the Equipment manager under the bus, but, based on:
- The teams history,
- Goddell's position in Bountygate that the "Coach should have known",
- The way Bellicheck handled his apology for spygate (which Goddell contends was not the agreement they made) &
- The backlash from being too lenient on Ray Rice

The league office comes down hard on Bellicheck, Brady and the team........ after the SB.

But who knows.

Len

[firerescuefin]

Originally Posted by velomonkey

Man, football is big and people really hate the patriots.

For sure....They've been at or near the top for a long time. As a fan of the Broncos...I hate them...and I am jealous of them. If they weren't so good, I'd shrug my shoulders. So the hatred towards them (by the masses) is a compliment.

What I don't get is the jailhouse lawyers on here defending the Pats. You don't think that the NFL would like to bury this is there was really nothing there. Like I said earlier....they pushed the boundaries (as others have done) and they got caught. They are not the victim here. Apparently, their risk/reward matrix needs to be re-thought.

[djg21]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/colts...n-second-half/

[Scuzzer]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

This is, in my opinion, the NFL saying "Oh, Indianapolis brought us this opportunity on a silver platter! We get to shift negative publicity away from us from that fiasco with Ray Rice, and move it to the Patriots, who everyone already thinks are criminals, I could only dream about this."

Really? I see it the exact opposite way. This doesn't deflect from the buffoonery that was the Ray Rice incident but it expands on it. The leadership of the NFL is repeatedly seen as a joke so now that this one has blown up on them they have to jump through all the silly steps like hiring an independent investigator so that they can shield themselves from further embarrassment.

BTW, I think it was probably standard operating procedure for the NE ballboys to deliver balls to the refs that passed inspection and then take some air out after they were handed back. They were just making the balls exactly the way Brady wanted them. I also think that nobody actually cared much about it but the Colts took the opportunity to tweak Belichick using the rule book, kinda like he does to other teams.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by Scuzzer

BTW, I think it was probably standard operating procedure for the NE ballboys to deliver balls to the refs that passed inspection and then take some air out after they were handed back. They were just making the balls exactly the way Brady wanted them. I also think that nobody actually cared much about it but the Colts took the opportunity to tweak Belichick using the rule book, kinda like he does to other teams.

We are all speculating on that point, and will have to see what the NFL's "Reasoned Report" says. But I do think it's just as likely that the Pats routinely deflated balls and then gave them to the officials who did a rudimentary inspection without actually checking for adequate pressure with more than a squeeze of the hand. I do think you are on to something when you say that the manipulation of footballs was commonplace before this incident but nobody actually cared much about it until the Colts took the opportunity to tweak Belichek using the Rulebook.

[Climb01742]

An interesting part of all this is:

It appears the NFL was alerted to the strong possibility that the Pats used under-inflated footballs and that the league wanted to try to catch them at it last Sunday. But as part of their sting, the league allowed the first half of the game to be played with the Pats using their suspect footballs. The league 'sprang their trap' at halftime, confiscating the 12 footballs and testing them. They then played the second half with legal footballs.

But here's a rub. To catch the Pats, the league allowed the Pats to cheat and gain an advantage for half of a championship game. Isn't that an odd way to protect 'the integrity of the game'? By intentionally letting someone cheat?

Look, I sadly believe the Pats crossed a line. But didn't the league screw with a championship game to catch them at it, versus proactively preventing it altogether? I'm not absolving the Pats but the league isn't innocent either.

[rugbysecondrow]

Originally Posted by djg21

We are all speculating on that point, and will have to see what the NFL's "Reasoned Report" says. But I do think it's just as likely that the Pats routinely deflated balls and then gave them to the officials who did a rudimentary inspection without actually checking for adequate pressure with more than a squeeze of the hand. I do think you are on to something when you say that the manipulation of footballs was commonplace before this incident but nobody actually cared much about it until the Colts took the opportunity to tweak Belichek using the Rulebook.

I agree. The assumption is that the Pats deflated balls...I bet they inflated the balls to their desired PSI and the refs never used a gauge. The NFL has gone overboard on this though. ESPN is reporting that a special investigator (Ted Olson) is on the case and over 40 people have been interviewed. We can all sleep well tonight knowing the NFL will get to the bottom of this.

[rugbysecondrow]

Somebody else made this comment, but Aaron Rodgers spoke openly about over inflating the balls as that is his preference. The TV crew discussed it and made a point about how his hands were larger and thus desired an over inflated ball.

It is funny how something openly discussed, commented on, special video editing provided for the interlude, is perfectly fine, but now that the Pats have gone with a softer ball, that is somehow cheating and an unfair advantage.

Not all rules are the same. Is a break in the rule actually cheating? Is it actually an unfair advantage if other teams have adjusted the PSI for their QBs preference?

Is this rule cheating or is it along the same lines as wearing non-league approved footwear?

Full disclosure, I am not a Pats fan, I am a Bears fan. I would rather the Packers be punished than the Pats. Those over inflated balls are like bricks...weapons. Unfair and could hurt defender not ready for such a hard object to be propelled. Rodgers should be arrested for battery.

[Len J]

Originally Posted by djg21

We are all speculating on that point, and will have to see what the NFL's "Reasoned Report" says. But I do think it's just as likely that the Pats routinely deflated balls and then gave them to the officials who did a rudimentary inspection without actually checking for adequate pressure with more than a squeeze of the hand. I do think you are on to something when you say that the manipulation of footballs was commonplace before this incident but nobody actually cared much about it until the Colts took the opportunity to tweak Belichek using the Rulebook.

One of my best friends is an NFL Umpire.

According to him, His crew does the same procedure every game that Peter King showed on his site.....Guage every single ball. This is both what they are taught and what is expected.

Does every crew do this? I couldn't say, but my take is that these Officials are not only the best of the best, but take their jobs very seriously, so I'd be surprised if most if not all of the crews did the same.

Len

[velomonkey]

Originally Posted by firerescuefin

For sure....They've been at or near the top for a long time. As a fan of the Broncos...I hate them...and I am jealous of them. If they weren't so good, I'd shrug my shoulders. So the hatred towards them (by the masses) is a compliment.

Apparently, their risk/reward matrix needs to be re-thought.

Agreed. I will add, I grew up in CT. The pats were horrible. The 85 super bowl. OMG - national embarrassment that still lives with me - I get sick hearing super bowl shuffle. My wife and her family are from Chicago and in my view the pats got stomped by Chicago, but then again, 6 super bowls in 14 years makes a lot of people mad and is way, way, way better than 1 win in 85 and look at the mileage Ditka gets. I guess it's all relative.

One note: risk/reward. I guess I'm not spazzing as I coach lacrosse and our best player, after scoring, got called out for a too deep pocket. Refs checked it and sure enough it was too deep. He was our best player - I pulled him aside and was like "I don't get it, you are too good for this. You got no advantage. you only gave them a reason to kick you out." He's a good kid, just doing what he always did, making it easier - think back to Nomar in baseball doing the whole glove thing, foot thing. Yea I know - not even close to a NFL QB, but sometimes people just push boundaries for no reason other than it's what they know. If they (the pats) did this - wicked, wicked dumb - I agree, no advantage and you get everyone a reason to hate you.

[Scuzzer]

Originally Posted by rugbysecondrow

Those over inflated balls are like bricks...weapons. Unfair and could hurt defender not ready for such a hard object to be propelled. Rodgers should be arrested for battery.

As a fellow Bears fan I agree our defense is not capable of dealing with hard objects propelled by Rodgers. They aren't really capable of much to be honest. I wonder if they get special handicapable parking spots next to the stadium?

[djg21]

Originally Posted by Len J

One of my best friends is an NFL Umpire.

According to him, His crew does the same procedure every game that Peter King showed on his site.....Guage every single ball. This is both what they are taught and what is expected.

Does every crew do this? I couldn't say, but my take is that these Officials are not only the best of the best, but take their jobs very seriously, so I'd be surprised if most if not all of the crews did the same.

Len

I'm sure every crew would like to do this until something like winter weather causes delay and threatens to interfere with TV broadcast schedules.

Irrespective of where this investigation goes, there simply is no reason to allow teams to manage their own balls. The officials should have a number of new game balls that are used by both teams. The same balls should be used for offense and for kicking. Of course, this would mean less effective passing and kicking games, and hence, lower scores, which is not what the NFL wants. I really think the NFL is complicit, at least through its inaction when quarterbacks seemingly routinely "prepped" their footballs without consequence.

IMO, this needs an NFL rule change; and not what amounts to a prosecution.

[djg21]

But definitely rated PG-13 if not R.

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ts-fans-think/