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  #31  
Old 06-17-2017, 07:43 PM
Gphin Gphin is offline
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Someone or some people should be sent to Levenworth breaking big rocks into little rocks, I doubt we will ever know the whole truth...
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  #32  
Old 06-17-2017, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Gphin View Post
Someone or some people should be sent to Levenworth breaking big rocks into little rocks, I doubt we will ever know the whole truth...

I suspect we will as long as the data from the merchant vessel's VDR is preserved, which is likely as their P & I Club (liability insurer) is teh Japan Club, with an inception date of 02 June 2017. You can bet they were aboard and downloading the data - if it hadn't already been done remotely from ashore, as soon as the vessel took her pilot.

CaptStash....
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  #33  
Old 06-17-2017, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by oldpotatoe View Post
Allright skipper...you need to tell us(me) of your sea borne resume, 'my 190,000 ton'...gads, I thought a CV was big but a 'measly 100,000 tons.
You crack me up Peter. Twenty-five years on merchant vessels, after being edumicated at Cal Berkeley then California Maritime - all of it except cadet shipping on tankers. The last seven years were as Master (captain to youse there landlubbers) on ships ranging in size from 91,0000 tonnes deadweight to 191,000 tonnes. Add twenty or thirty thousand tonnes to get displacement for them when they were fully loaded. Most of my time as Master was spent on the U.S. West Coast in the Valdez trade, although I did spend some time in the Gulf of Mexico when I relieved Duke (another stellar Paceline member) on the 91,000 tonne Panamx tanker. I got to take her through the canal and back to the U.S. West Coast. I also made a few trips back and forth to the far east and Singapore.

These days I, like Duke, am an industry sponsored tanker safety smartypants conducting safety inspections as required by the oil companies for the ships to be employed.

Plus I kill it on Talk Like a Pirate Day and have been known to swear like a merchant seaman when required.

CaptStash....
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  #34  
Old 06-17-2017, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptStash View Post
Plus I kill it on Talk Like a Pirate Day and have been known to swear like a merchant seaman when required.

CaptStash....
its the important things!

seriously...have really enjoyed your commentary and have learned tonnes! still, hard to understand how a big ole boat could run into another big ole boat. Don't they still have guys out there with binoculars scanning the horizons?
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  #35  
Old 06-17-2017, 10:13 PM
Ken Robb Ken Robb is offline
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I don't know squat about maneuvering big ships. I had trouble with my 32 foot Sea Ray but I can swear like a merchant seaman or a Marine NCO for that matter.
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  #36  
Old 06-17-2017, 10:51 PM
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gasman gasman is offline
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I lose my voice by the end of talk like a Pirate Day and my wife wants to strangle me.
Here is a good pirate link:http://talklikeapirate.com/wordpress...ked-questions/


But seriously, CaptStash I've learned a lot from your comments and can't even imagine being in command of vessels that big !

I'm just saddened to hear that 7 men lost their lives in the accident.
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  #37  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:44 AM
smontanaro smontanaro is offline
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Originally Posted by numbskull View Post
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40314128

This link shows a very erratic course taken by the freighter.
For those of us not used to looking at maritime maps, what's the approximate scale of that last map which shows the detail of the erratic course of the container ship? Google Maps suggests it's perhaps 20-25 miles from Minamiizu to Toshima.
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  #38  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:36 AM
numbskull numbskull is offline
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I would expect there is a defined shipping lane between the two land masses (and I am assuming that there are laws against large commercial ships operating outside of defined shipping lanes in order to protect the costal water small boat traffic). It looks like something happened where the freighter turned sharply off track (the initial abrupt brief deviation of track to the right), then followed an incorrect course, likely taking it out of the shipping lane. When it realized the error (and its associated dangers and liabilities) it reversed course to get back to where it should have been then turned again to follow its originally planned course. It seems likely that this latter maneuver was when the collision occurred but I'm just speculating.
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  #39  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:57 AM
Tony Tony is online now
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Bodies found inside the ship.
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  #40  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptStash View Post
You crack me up Peter. Twenty-five years on merchant vessels, after being edumicated at Cal Berkeley then California Maritime - all of it except cadet shipping on tankers. The last seven years were as Master (captain to youse there landlubbers) on ships ranging in size from 91,0000 tonnes deadweight to 191,000 tonnes. Add twenty or thirty thousand tonnes to get displacement for them when they were fully loaded. Most of my time as Master was spent on the U.S. West Coast in the Valdez trade, although I did spend some time in the Gulf of Mexico when I relieved Duke (another stellar Paceline member) on the 91,000 tonne Panamx tanker. I got to take her through the canal and back to the U.S. West Coast. I also made a few trips back and forth to the far east and Singapore.

These days I, like Duke, am an industry sponsored tanker safety smartypants conducting safety inspections as required by the oil companies for the ships to be employed.

Plus I kill it on Talk Like a Pirate Day and have been known to swear like a merchant seaman when required.

CaptStash....
Arg...I, too, can swear like a sailor, just ask my grand daughters..thanks..

Found the Fitz sailors, BTW-too bad..all onboard.
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  #41  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:11 AM
Tony Tony is online now
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Originally Posted by oldpotatoe View Post
Arg...I, too, can swear like a sailor, just ask my grand daughters..thanks..

Found the Fitz sailors, BTW-too bad..all onboard.
Must have been horrible for those sailors.
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  #42  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:58 AM
Gphin Gphin is offline
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As I don't have the impressive resume as the good Captain does, I did spend 4 years aboad the worlds finest guided missle cruiser, and it pains me to no end as who the hell is responsible for this mess. God bless those sailors who passed.
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  #43  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:26 AM
sfscott sfscott is offline
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With the seven deaths, should we assume the JAG corps will have something to say now?
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  #44  
Old 06-18-2017, 12:34 PM
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CaptStash CaptStash is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numbskull View Post
I would expect there is a defined shipping lane between the two land masses (and I am assuming that there are laws against large commercial ships operating outside of defined shipping lanes in order to protect the costal water small boat traffic). It looks like something happened where the freighter turned sharply off track (the initial abrupt brief deviation of track to the right), then followed an incorrect course, likely taking it out of the shipping lane. When it realized the error (and its associated dangers and liabilities) it reversed course to get back to where it should have been then turned again to follow its originally planned course. It seems likely that this latter maneuver was when the collision occurred but I'm just speculating.
Assumptions are dangerous. I suspect that what you are calling a shipping lane is a TSS (Traffic Separation Scheme). Since it would be offshore, it would have to be IMO approved (it's a UN thing) and that takes some time. From what I have read do far, Japan is apparently working towards that, but at present there is no TSS in the area. There is no rule that says a vessel has to operate in a TSS, but there are a set of very specific rules as to how vessels are to operate within a TSS, and when crossing, entering or leaving one.

One theory I have read from other mariners suggested that the Crystal made the 180 degree turn in order to avoid congested traffic. I have never had to do that, but I know lots of people who have. Usually a round turn does the trick to let things clear out before you proceed. I am also under the impression that the Crystal was operating on a timed arrival which is fairly standard for a liner (she was only making 14.5 kts) so they may also have been burning time. Slowing down might not have been an option if they were operating just above the barred speed range of their engine. Slow speed diesels typically have an speed range that can not be used due to excessive vibrations. 14.5 kts sounds about like full ahead maneuvering, and the next step down (below the barred range), half ahead, may have been too slow. Lots of conjecture and guessing though.

Note: I was just looking at the AIS track again and it seems the Crystal's spped was up and down a bit. I'll look for an active version of teh track to see if I can get a better idea of what waqs going on.

CaptStash....

Last edited by CaptStash; 06-18-2017 at 12:43 PM.
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  #45  
Old 06-19-2017, 10:10 AM
rallizes rallizes is offline
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the plot thickens

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...T.nav=top-news

"The container ship continued east for another half hour before reversing around 2:00 a.m. and returning to the scene. The Japanese Coast Guard and U.S. Navy initially said the collision happened at 2:20 a.m. because the ACX Crystal did not report it until 2:25 a.m."

that would account for the weird path of the container ship...
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