OT: why does Idaho want to kill its wolf population?

[XXtwindad]

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/a...mp_readtherest

It looks like the issue is really a proxy war between ranchers and conservationists, but that might be a simplistic reading.

Anyone live in Idaho or have a better grasp on the subject?

[NormansCay]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/a...mp_readtherest

It looks like the issue is really a proxy war between ranchers and conservationists, but that might be a simplistic reading.

Anyone live in Idaho or have a better grasp on the subject?

I just got an email this morning asking me to support the change.org petition to protect wolves. Not surprising it is a proxy war between those two factions. I think a lot of it is that Idaho is a conservative state (politically) undergoing significant migration influx from other mostly more liberal western states.

[ripvanrando]

I do not live in Idaho but as I hunter, I am familiar with Fish and Game using hunters to do the hard work while collecting huge license and permit fees as they sit comfortably in their offices analysing data.

If Idaho wants to manage the population of wolves and thus reduce their killing of cattle, sheep, goats, chickens, deer, elk, etc., I think they should do the killing rather than allow so-called hunters to use night vision, snow mobiles and other machinery to do their dirty work. The bill allows these measures and I would not consider it hunting but likely just a power and money grab by the fish and game. It is not hard to understand that farmers and rancher want predators killed. The permit and licensing money maker for the state is harder to see.

[Ozz]

What I've never really understood ....is it really that big of a problem? I would guess that maybe a couple hundred cows, sheep, goats each year?

Seems cheaper and more palatable to just pay the ranchers for their losses. A cow is worth about $3000-$4000 each?

So, for about $800,000 everyone should be happy.....no wolves killed, ranchers reimbursed for their losses.

Done...

[mtechnica]

The rednecks in Idaho think they have a god given right to use the land to raise animals and they only care about their profit and livelihood. To them the wolves are just a nuisance and increased cost. They either don’t believe in science or simply don’t care, and will rape the environment and eco system all day every way as long as it makes them a buck. They will kill a wolf like swatting a fly and it means nothing to them, they’ll sleep like a baby that night and dream happily about Christian Conservative hegemony and whatever other crap they typically get off on.

[goonster]

Originally Posted by ripvanrando

I am familiar with Fish and Game using hunters to do the hard work while collecting huge license and permit fees as they sit comfortably in their offices analysing data.

I don't see the problem. There's a demand for permits, right?

Does the wolf care if it's bagged by a hunter, or culled by the state?

Originally Posted by Ozz

What I've never really understood ....is it really that big of a problem? I would guess that maybe a couple hundred cows, sheep, goats each year?

To be fair, it feels different when they are your sheep or goats.

It's not just an accounting exercise when your livestock is torn up, and you are prevented from doing anything about it. Protecting your flock is pretty primal stuff, actually.

[OtayBW]

^
^ Interesting. It's like Manifest Destiny all over again on an ecological level...

[ripvanrando]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

The rednecks in Idaho think they have a god given right to use the land to raise animals and they only care about their profit and livelihood. To them the wolves are just a nuisance and increased cost. They either don’t believe in science or simply don’t care, and will rape the environment and eco system all day every way as long as it makes them a buck. They will kill a wolf like swatting a fly and it means nothing to them, they’ll sleep like a baby that night and dream happily about Christian Conservative hegemony and whatever other crap they typically get off on.

I suppose they would rebut.....stay in California.

In my area, Coyote population has exploded. Many birds (pheasant, turkey, quail, etc.) are pretty much gone. It makes me a little nervous when I see coyotes in the Hedgegrow not far from the neighbor's little daughter.

Your nasty comment about Christianity is offensive.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by goonster

To be fair, it feels different when they are your sheep or goats.

It's not just an accounting exercise when your livestock is torn up, and you are prevented from doing anything about it. Protecting your flock is pretty primal stuff, actually.

I guess what side of this issue you land on comes down to whether or not you believe people have a right to use the land for their business to any extent they want. If you’re a conservative and believe in small government you’ll probably say let them do whatever they need to make a profit. If you’re on the opposite side of the spectrum you probably believe the government should regulate the situation with conservation in mind, and that raising livestock at all costs isn’t sustainable or the best use of land in all cases.

[JedB]

The farmers do get compensation for the animals that are lost to wolf predation.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by ripvanrando

I suppose they would rebut.....stay in California.

In my area, Coyote population has exploded. Many birds (pheasant, turkey, quail, etc.) are pretty much gone. It makes me a little nervous when I see coyotes in the Hedgegrow not far from the neighbor's little daughter.

Your nasty comment about Christianity is offensive.

I grew up in Eastern WA FWIW so I know all about what goes on in Idaho.

Also I didn’t mean to offend Christians, I’m just saying a lot of these people are basically religious fundamentalists that actually believe they hold dominion over animals and the planet etc... you basically can’t question their beliefs about much of anything from a logical perspective.

“ Religious fundamentalists believe in the superiority of their religious teachings, and in a strict division between righteous people and evildoers (Altemeyer and Hunsberger, 1992, 2004). This belief system regulates religious thoughts, but also all conceptions regarding the self, others, and the world.”

I think that not addressing this issue prevents one from fully grasping the situation.

[Hellgate]

In before the lock.

[JedB]

Originally Posted by Hellgate

In before the lock.

What's up, Pete.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

^
^ Interesting. It's like Manifest Destiny all over again on an ecological level...

This is literally what’s going on

“ Manifest Destiny, a phrase coined in 1845, is the idea that the United States is destined—by God, its advocates believed—to expand its dominion and spread democracy and capitalism across the entire North American continent.”

If the mods want to lock the thread because someone is posting factual information then go for it but it’s a real snowflake move imo.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Hellgate

In before the lock.

A topic that cleanly splits along political lines getting locked? No way.