Carbon bike

[veloduffer]

Originally Posted by mcteague

After 10 years on a Seven Axiom I too lusted after carbon. Lots of research led me to the Parlee Z5. Geometry and size were nearly the same as my Seven. I was sure I was going to get one after reading all the reviews. Trouble is, I did not like the ride. It was not bad, just kind of dead. There was no feedback from the road. I did like the way the stiffness helped when climbing though.



I ended up back with Seven and got the mixed Ti/carbon 622 SLX. I seems to have the best of both worlds, stiff & light but also transmits a nice amount of road feel. Plus, the filament wound carbon tubes are a bit more resistant to cracking upon impact as compared to those molded in forms IMO. Still, I really do like the look of the new styles with hidden cables, so clean. But, as I do my own wrenching, I'll stick to external cables for the time being.

Carbon feels *dead* compared to other materials due to its dampening qualities. And there are degrees of *dead*...I felt my Madone felt more dead than the Parlee.

Carbon will feel a bit different but it will be hard to discern that on a quick test ride. You need to ride it over rough roads, rolling hills and big climbs. Then the qualities that you want will start to be more evident.




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[weisan]

See what I mean, bob pal....you gotta try it and decide for yourself.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by veloduffer

Carbon feels *dead* compared to other materials due to its dampening qualities. And there are degrees of *dead*...I felt my Madone felt more dead than the Parlee.

Carbon will feel a bit different but it will be hard to discern that on a quick test ride. You need to ride it over rough roads, rolling hills and big climbs. Then the qualities that you want will start to be more evident.




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Everyone talks about carbon feeling dead as if that is a bad thing. Its the term that has a negative connotation, it is not dead you just feel less of the road but that is not always necessarily a bad thing... and very much agree, that got to depend on the bike. My parlee does not feel dead and neither does the OPEN, on the contrary

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by veloduffer

Carbon feels *dead* compared to other materials due to its dampening qualities. And there are degrees of *dead*...I felt my Madone felt more dead than the Parlee.

Carbon will feel a bit different but it will be hard to discern that on a quick test ride. You need to ride it over rough roads, rolling hills and big climbs. Then the qualities that you want will start to be more evident.




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I'm intrigued by this. So maybe the gradations should include Indisposed, Ill, Critical, Dying, Terminal, Dead, and what... Zombie maybe? Clearly a custom builder can design to dial in and hit one of these points, where a high end factory bike will only allow for a choice between 2 or 3 at best. Sorry, banana snark. But seriously, when we don't even have the language to adequately describe the perceived differences between materials and models, especially when it takes a long ride or three to really "know", then I think it's really about preferences. I like my steel ride. But my 20 year younger self would definitely have lusted after something like a Domane or Dogma or something else flashy, carbon and starts with a D.

PS- I forgot "suffering"- the mid-level privateer pricepoint model, designed for the collegiate racer who's just about tapped out Dad's visa card... Stiff and not too compliant.

[bob heinatz]

First I would like to thank everyone who has responded. I think there is no right answer concerning using a carbon frame because everyone has their own personal experience with carbon. My plan now is to find a nice used quality carbon bike in my size and ride it for a few months to see if I really like it or not. I will be selective on the brands I will be looking for so no Giant's ect. As I mentioned I have two great bikes now steel & ti so I can be patient on my hunt.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by bob heinatz

First I would like to thank everyone who has responded. I think there is no right answer concerning using a carbon frame because everyone has their own personal experience with carbon. My plan now is to find a nice used quality carbon bike in my size and ride it for a few months to see if I really like it or not. I will be selective on the brands I will be looking for so no Giant's ect. As I mentioned I have two great bikes now steel & ti so I can be patient on my hunt.

like people have mentioned here, look out for a look, they go for great prices.

also parlees are getting really cheap (downfall is tire clearance on some of the older models)

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by bob heinatz

First I would like to thank everyone who has responded. I think there is no right answer concerning using a carbon frame because everyone has their own personal experience with carbon. My plan now is to find a nice used quality carbon bike in my size and ride it for a few months to see if I really like it or not. I will be selective on the brands I will be looking for so no Giant's ect. As I mentioned I have two great bikes now steel & ti so I can be patient on my hunt.

I would definitely test ride a Giant, and a Cdale, a Trek or two and a Spesh working with some good shops (visit at a slow time). I think you'd be surprised. I'm not a factory bike fanboy either. I'll stick my neck out and say that there's few if any "bad bikes" among the big makers, just maybe the wrong bike... for you. Or the right one. An open mind and patience for the process could make for a fun and enlightening experience. Then take the attributes and models you liked and go find a similar, older or just not "new" version of what you liked in the used market and save some $$$. And there is the possibility that you don't like anything at all. Then you save yourself some time and money, go for a joyride on one of your metal bikes and feel superior in your confirmed knowledge that steel is indeed real! Or Ti. With a carbon fork of course. Or not.

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by veloduffer

Carbon feels *dead* compared to other materials due to its dampening qualities. And there are degrees of *dead*...I felt my Madone felt more dead than the Parlee.

Carbon will feel a bit different but it will be hard to discern that on a quick test ride. You need to ride it over rough roads, rolling hills and big climbs. Then the qualities that you want will start to be more evident.




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Just for the record, I did ride the Parlee Z5 for a fairly long test ride. About an hour over hills and some broken pavement. I agree some traits take longer to ascertain, but I think my test was long enough to tell me the bike was not what I was looking for.

Tim

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

like people have mentioned here, look out for a look, they go for great prices.

also parlees are getting really cheap (downfall is tire clearance on some of the older models)

They don't appear often, but there's a 56cm Cyfac in the classifieds right now (no relation to seller). If it fit, it's a very sweet bike. Small production, pedigree history, smart design, French snob appeal I love mine, and this one is nicer than mine.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showt...ighlight=cyfac

[bob heinatz]

R3 your newly aquired Open looks like a great all in one bike. Please update when you have more time on that bike. I have a friend who purchased a Open this Febuary and ended up selling his Peg because he grabbed the carbon for each ride.

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by bob heinatz

First I would like to thank everyone who has responded. I think there is no right answer concerning using a carbon frame because everyone has their own personal experience with carbon. My plan now is to find a nice used quality carbon bike in my size and ride it for a few months to see if I really like it or not. I will be selective on the brands I will be looking for so no Giant's ect. As I mentioned I have two great bikes now steel & ti so I can be patient on my hunt.

That is one thing about carbon that puts me off. They can have damage that you cannot see. You need someone skilled at using an ultrasound device to check it for unseen damage and voids. With a used bike, you have no idea how many times it was dropped. Just letting it fall against a pole, or curb can delaminate the carbon under the paint and you have no idea until it fails.

Check out Raoul Luescher's videos on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY9...4lLOHpb_zbIedQ

Tim

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

and interesting since I remember hearing CLEAN say he loved his carbon trek.

also agree on the genralizations, if made in US, ITALY or ... insert western country here... good, china or taiwan bad. Its not as simple as that. THere is plenty of quality control in taiwan and they are making some of the best carbon stuff in the world. I know its cool to hate on china/taiwan but there is nice stuff there, the nice stuff is not cheap (sure compared to the Portland builder it might be).

I also disagree that carbon is for racers only.

I've ridden a lot of carbon. Not as much as others, but enough to have formulated opinions of my own..

The Emonda SLR I had did ride nicely, but I've since ridden steel bikes that I vastly prefer - and even preferred the ride of the Look 585 Ultra to it. Plus, the Emonda SLR felt like a consumable, finite-life product - the BB won't last and it's always one small miscalculation away from being worthless or needing repair. I guess I've just lost interest in that.

And it's not that I don't think China or Taiwan could produce on par with TIME or some high-end US builders, I just don't think they are in general trying to do so (there may be some boutique production I'm not aware of...and I think the Parlee Z4/5 are probably another exception, especially the early model years). TIME is weaving their own carbon and engineering for longevity, not the lightest/stiffest/cheapest frame possible. Holland is laying everything up meticulously and committing to significant testing. I personally do not think that the top-end bikes being cranked out of the big factories are "worth" what they are charging - but that's me and my calculus, and is subjective, so ignore it if it isn't the same yardstick for you...

OP asked for opinions, and that's all any of us have.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by zennmotion

They don't appear often, but there's a 56cm Cyfac in the classifieds right now (no relation to seller). If it fit, it's a very sweet bike. Small production, pedigree history, smart design, French snob appeal I love mine, and this one is nicer than mine.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showt...ighlight=cyfac

I should add them to my list of ones to consider...saw a really nice one in Portland yesterday actually...ridden by a pretty tall dude too...

[veloduffer]

Originally Posted by mcteague

Just for the record, I did ride the Parlee Z5 for a fairly long test ride. About an hour over hills and some broken pavement. I agree some traits take longer to ascertain, but I think my test was long enough to tell me the bike was not what I was looking for.

Tim

I had an Axiom for a while - nice bike but I preferred my old Merlin Road (Cambridge built). I didn’t really connect with my Spectrum and Serotta ti bikes, but they were purchased second-hand and not built for me. My current ti is an Eriksen, which I adore as much as my Parlee and ride similarly (the Eriksen has some oversize tubing for stiffness).

I did enjoy my Serotta Ottrott (carbon-ti combo with ti seat stays instead of the bowed carbon). It was really comfortable but just a tad long in the top tube.



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[veloduffer]

Originally Posted by mcteague

That is one thing about carbon that puts me off. They can have damage that you cannot see. You need someone skilled at using an ultrasound device to check it for unseen damage and voids. With a used bike, you have no idea how many times it was dropped. Just letting it fall against a pole, or curb can delaminate the carbon under the paint and you have no idea until it fails.

I think Parlee used to allow someone who bought a used Parlee to send it in (for a fee) for inspection and receive a warranty. Parlee’s customer service is top notch.



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