Bird Scooters in your city

[colbyh]

Originally Posted by ptourkin

Don't ban scooters. Redesign streets:

https://www.curbed.com/word-on-the-s...d-lime-streets

Bingo. I'd rather step over scooters on the sidewalk (annoying, yes) than deal with another hurried Uber/Lyft driver speeding inches by me in a crosswalk in their rush to get a 5 star rating or hit a quota.

It's also really funny to me that the responses to scooters here are almost exactly the same as drivers' complaints about cyclists on the road.

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

A wag in San Diego wrote: "If I drop a candy wrapper on the sidewalk I can be cited for littering but if I dump my Bird Scooter there it's fine".

That person is a doofus. Do they complain about cars left on the street?

[benadrian]

Originally Posted by ptourkin

That person is a doofus. Do they complain about cars left on the street?

I don't think either of the analogies are quite accurate. In many cases, the bird scooters are left directly in the path of pedestrian traffic on a sidewalk, or in front of doors for residences and businesses.

A more correct analogy to the above might be, would people complain if 1 out of 10 cars parked are either blocking driveways or left in a traffic lane so that cars have to swerve around them?

The idea is cool, and it should work well, but a small percentage of bad actors have the power to make it really crappy.

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by benadrian

I don't think either of the analogies are quite accurate. In many cases, the bird scooters are left directly in the path of pedestrian traffic on a sidewalk, or in front of doors for residences and businesses.

A more correct analogy to the above might be, would people complain if 1 out of 10 cars parked are either blocking driveways or left in a traffic lane so that cars have to swerve around them?

The idea is cool, and it should work well, but a small percentage of bad actors have the power to make it really crappy.

Both the piece of trash and the scooter can easily be picked up and moved aside. Unlike the trash, the scooter can be used to eliminate wasteful vehicle trips.

Unlike both of the others, the private car that is in the way can't be moved aside by anyone but the owner and unlike the scooter, only benefits the selfish person who left it there.

[MrDangerPants]

Originally Posted by ptourkin

Both the piece of trash and the scooter can easily be picked up and moved aside.

Not if you're in a wheelchair.

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by MrDangerPants

Not if you're in a wheelchair.

This is true but every comment I've seen online about personally having seen this occur cannot be true. Also, San Diego's streets and sidewalks are a ****ing mess, a few misplaced scooters are not the biggest mobility problem for those folks. There is a lot of pearl clutching about new things. It will go away.

People are used to cars but only some forward-thinking urbanists are questioning the way we subsidize them with free storage that is taken for granted while we make other modes much harder to use.

[benadrian]

I don't think anyone wants to see more people in cars and less people on scooters. I think the real problem that people don't want them in their yards and don't want to be responsible for navigating them as sidewalk obstacles due to someone else's bad behavior.

So, the question to address is how do we incentivize good behavior from the end user and disincentivize bad behavior? I don't know in this case. I've seen how various dock-less bikeshares have done it, but scooters are a whole different animal due to size, portability, and that fact that they're electric. Perhaps there needs to be certain "Bird friendly zones" for parking the scooters, and the rates are greatly reduced if you pick up and/or drop off within these zones?

[ORMojo]

I'm in San Diego right now, and it is my 4th city in the past several months where I have come across the scooters, including DC (they aren't in my home town). Frankly, I have enjoyed the sight of them - a lot of use, and a lot of smiles. But then, I don't have to live with them every day, and all of my visits to these cities have been during good weather...

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by benadrian

I don't think anyone wants to see more people in cars and less people on scooters. I think the real problem that people don't want them in their yards and don't want to be responsible for navigating them as sidewalk obstacles due to someone else's bad behavior.

I agree. I don’t think folks think it would be better to be in cars.
The main issue for me is you have people going 15mph on the sidewalk navigating through children, elderly, disabled and all other people on the sidewalk.

My experience is in San Francisco and more recently they’ve moved to Oakland. These are not empty streets and sidewalks.

Th 2nd issue is this pervasive idea that it’s ok to abuse your fair share of public infrastructure for corporate gain. This idea that to won’t need a permit for storing these or figure out and pay for a location to store them is not necessary because you can just toss it in front of the bus stop is not ok.

[cmg]

Currently the docked bike share program is $10 for 30 minutes but use it less than 30 minutes still $10. The Bird scooter are $1 to log on .15 a minute to be stopped when you log off. so a trip can be as low as $1.15 or $10 an hour. much better travel option than bike share and the VIA bus system. On paper they should work better than what transport systems are there provided your healthy enough to use it.

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

I agree. I don’t think folks think it would be better to be in cars.
The main issue for me is you have people going 15mph on the sidewalk navigating through children, elderly, disabled and all other people on the sidewalk.

My experience is in San Francisco and more recently they’ve moved to Oakland. These are not empty streets and sidewalks.

Th 2nd issue is this pervasive idea that it’s ok to abuse your fair share of public infrastructure for corporate gain. This idea that to won’t need a permit for storing these or figure out and pay for a location to store them is not necessary because you can just toss it in front of the bus stop is not ok.

Again, I question the idea that this is an "abuse" of public infrastructure while we don't question the many costs of allocating space for parking cars. The paradigm needs to change and we should be open to it.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Fre.../dp/193236496X

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by ptourkin

Again, I question the idea that this is an "abuse" of public infrastructure while we don't question the many costs of allocating space for parking cars. The paradigm needs to change and we should be open to it.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Fre.../dp/193236496X

Well that conversation won't have stupid electric scooters at the vanguard.

They were consistently awful in San Francisco this Spring and I'm glad the city put the clamps down on their nonsense. The clogging the sidewalks thing isn't hyperbole. They were everywhere and they were a nuisance to everyone using the sidewalk, which is congested enough as it is.

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by ptourkin

Again, I question the idea that this is an "abuse" of public infrastructure while we don't question the many costs of allocating space for parking cars. The paradigm needs to change and we should be open to it.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Fre.../dp/193236496X

I haven’t read the book. But I’d also wager to say to you didn’t see the bird scooters this spring first hand.

Also there is almost no free parking here and meter parking can cost up to $8/ hour

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Well that conversation won't have stupid electric scooters at the vanguard.

They were consistently awful in San Francisco this Spring and I'm glad the city put the clamps down on their nonsense. The clogging the sidewalks thing isn't hyperbole. They were everywhere and they were a nuisance to everyone using the sidewalk, which is congested enough as it is.

This

[cmg]

the issue with parking/dumping could be solved by converting them to a docking station/racks and having a crew pick them up the loose undocked ones every night. that and donating more of their revenue to city coffers, always a solution. looks like a real problem.... not enough room to walk around.