Campagnolo shifter issues - Page 2

dddd · #16 08-18-2018, 02:45 PM

I'm not at all sure where this is going, but where a sharp bend in the housing occurs, sometimes the cable will wear through the liner.
Probably not the issue here, since usually it would be on the brake housing, but substituting a new housing where the existing cabling is suspect might be worth the effort.

Shift cables need free movement, so any lubricants used on the cable wire should be cable-specific IMO, such as Dura-Ace cable grease or my preferred Gripshift Jonnisnot cable grease, used sparingly on the wire only.
Better cable housings are pre-lubricated these days, so I apply the special grease as much as a wipe-down cleaner as a lubricant. Cable lubricants should be silicon-based (as are the lubes I mentioned) so as to be compatible with the pre-lube and so as to be immune to the effects of aging (i.e. no evaporation, oxidation or permeating of the housing liner).

If the shifter is working really well with one cassette but not with another, I would tend to dismiss the shifter as the culprit.

Road Fan · #17 08-18-2018, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zmudshark

I could be mistaken, but I think there are NO ferrules into the Ergo body. That's why the housing end has to be as square as possible.

I think that's correct. I recently reinstalled and better-trimmed housings on two Campy 10 installations, and even though the Campy housing is a bit smaller than teh Jagwire, there is no room in the Ergo handles for even a Campy ferrule. You should dress each end of the outer cable with a mill or mill bastard file or a Dremel wheel to make sure the end is smooth and square with no sharp spikes, then it should sit and run square at the Ergo handle.

We're supposed to route the outer cable out of the handle and at all other interfaces so there are no creases, no binding, and so the outer cable is straight at the ferrule end and soon transitions into a smooth curve as needed.

oldpotatoe · #18 08-18-2018, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road Fan

I think that's correct. I recently reinstalled and better-trimmed housings on two Campy 10 installations, and even though the Campy housing is a bit smaller than teh Jagwire, there is no room in the Ergo handles for even a Campy ferrule. You should dress each end of the outer cable with a mill or mill bastard file or a Dremel wheel to make sure the end is smooth and square with no sharp spikes, then it should sit and run square at the Ergo handle.

We're supposed to route the outer cable out of the handle and at all other interfaces so there are no creases, no binding, and so the outer cable is straight at the ferrule end and soon transitions into a smooth curve as needed.

See above...until 2009(Gumby shape and first year of 11s), all ERGO did require a ferrule for DER housing, never for brake. A standard 5mm ferrule fits in the hole, grease ‘em before putting them in there.Plus, routing behind the handlebars seems to work better than in front.

Cicli · #19 08-18-2018, 02:57 PM

The problem shifter is off to Elder potatoe for repair. Hope there is something wrong with it.

Cicli · #20 08-19-2018, 04:52 PM

Well, I decided to fix it myself. Heck, I can overhaul an old pocket watch I can fix a shifter. The post on the g-spring carrier is busted off. Hopefully this is the cause. I will order the bits from old potatoe and get it running again.

paredown · #21 08-19-2018, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Not true, ERGO 1998 thru 2009(11s) DO use ferrules for DER housing, none for brake. 2011 Gumby shape, no ferrules in lever. Gent said 15 years old, 2003, yes der housing ferrules.

Thanks for the reminder on this--I did two bikes in succession--one new style, and then one old style 10--and of course I forgot the ferrules in the older one.

I just redid it with the ferrules, tidied everything up, and it shifts mo' better.

gfk_velo · #22 08-19-2018, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cicli

I think that happened around 2009. These are like 1999 or so. I am not sure either. That could be the issue though.

Ha - 06:44h and just seen the note above!
Oh, well, I'll leave this up for others who might have a similar issue but for other reasons :-D ...

1999 or so?
28T bottom gear? Are they 10s? Campagnolo didn't / don't offer a 28 in 10s, so are they 9s?
If they are 9s then definitely you need ferrules in the levers.

If they are 9s, you may also have an issue with the combination of RD and lever cable bushing. A small change was made between MYs 1999 and 2000 to the pull ratio that produces the error that you describe.

The RD works OK-ish on a narrow cassette (though actually, not spot-on) but on a wider cassette, the error is enough that you can get a good upshift, or a good downshift or by careful tuning of the shift mid-cassette, a more or less acceptable shift both ways when everything is new. Wear and tear will make it progressively worse though.

Assuming everything is compatible, if the shift is OK on a narrow cassette and poor on a wider cassette, also look to the jockey wheels - a lot of play in the bushings will produce poor upshifts, especially. As others have said, used, tired, worn outer sections won't help the shift, nor will an over-short rear section. Non Campag inners, especially anything galvanised or "teflon coated" other than the newest Campag "Maximum Smoothness", can give cable drag issues. Ditto plastic, rather than metal, ferrules.

Cicli · #23 08-19-2018, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfk_velo

1999 or so?
28T bottom gear? Are they 10s? Campagnolo didn't / don't offer a 28 in 10s, so are they 9s?

If they are 9s, you may have an issue with the combination of RD and lever cable bushing. A small change was made between MYs 1999 and 2000 to the pull ratio that produces the error that you describe.

The RD works OK-ish on a narrow cassette (though actually, not spot-on) but on a wider cassette, the error is enough that you can get a good upshift, or a good downshift or by careful tuning of the shift mid-cassette, a more or less acceptable shift both ways when everything is new. Wear and tear will make it progressively worse though.

Assuming everything is compatible, if the shift is OK on a narrow cassette and poor on a wider cassette, also look to the jockey wheels - a lot of play in the bushings will produce poor upshifts, especially. As others have said, used, tired, worn outer sections won't help the shift, nor will an over-short rear section. Non Campag inners, especially anything galvanised or "teflon coated" other than the newest Campag "Maximum Smoothness", can give cable drag issues. Ditto plastic, rather than metal, ferrules.

Thanks, it is 9 speed. Running a 9 soeed Veloce cassette. It is on a basicly untouched bike so I have to believe it all matches. Maybe not though.
I did find the spring carrier had a broken post so once I get that ironed out, I will give it a shot. Hope that fixes the issue.

ultraman6970 · #24 08-19-2018, 10:27 PM

Well, the spring carrier has a leg broken, well then thats the problem, even more if you havent touch that in 15 years.

The fix is not hard, just be patient, take your time and if posible use silicone grease... inert to pretty much anything.

oldpotatoe · #25 08-20-2018, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cicli

Thanks, it is 9 speed. Running a 9 soeed Veloce cassette. It is on a basicly untouched bike so I have to believe it all matches. Maybe not though.
I did find the spring carrier had a broken post so once I get that ironed out, I will give it a shot. Hope that fixes the issue.

Carrier and springs on the way today..new, 'Record/Ultra' with resin carbon carrier..doesn't break as often. I didn't include in PM but might dremel a little divot in back cap right above post on the carrier..sometimes handlebar shape can contribute to this post breaking.

Cicli · #26 08-25-2018, 11:02 AM

Thanks old potatoe.

Shifter rebuild was a piece of cake. Took about 10 minutes. Love Campagnolo.
Shifting is spot on and killer quick.
Bike id dialed in and todays ride was killer.

oldpotatoe · #27 08-25-2018, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cicli

Thanks old potatoe.

Shifter rebuild was a piece of cake. Took about 10 minutes. Love Campagnolo.
Shifting is spot on and killer quick.
Bike id dialed in and todays ride was killer.

HUZZAH....always like a happy ending...I ❤️ Campagnolo also..what a surprise. I say this cuz it’s gets some all spooled up.

I’d rather walk than use shimano or (horrors) sram stuff...