Cancellara Motor Doping

[RobJ]

I️ don’t get the the term “motor doping” per se but here’s another one now being investigated.

https://www.bicycling.com/racing/fab...eb40568974c5ff


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[LJohnny]

pfff, so much time had passed, where are the bikes he used? I think this is pretty much a canned approach to an issue that, yes, may have happened, very, very difficult to prove this far out from the date it happended...

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by LJohnny

pfff, so much time had passed, where are the bikes he used? I think this is pretty much a canned approach to an issue that, yes, may have happened, very, very difficult to prove this far out from the date it happended...

he has the bike from 2010 Roubaix hanging in his garage.

Not sure what Gaimon knows. He can do like 480 watts for 10 minutes (according to this site: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...x-evo-gallery/ ) I think Cancellara could do close to that for almost an hour. 460 normalized power for an hour and 12 minutes, according to this: http://www.stickybottle.com/wp-conte...16/08/Can1.png

So, for sure Cancellara's max power for an attack is beyond what Gaimon could imagine. "his accelerations don't look natural at all" Indeed. Only a handful of people could keep up with him when he put those attacks in. If we come to the conclusion that he was cheating based on the dominance of his attacks, how can you not also pass judgement on Boonen in 2011?

I think Gaimon has some good insights about the professional peloton, but this isn't any better than a bunch of guys behind keyboards watching grainy youtube videos and deciding he is guilty based on a hunch.

If he were regularly at the sharp end of the cobbled classics, I'd put more stock in his thoughts on this.

[RobJ]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

So, for sure Cancellara's max power for an attack is beyond what Gaimon could imagine. "his accelerations don't look natural at all" Indeed. Only a handful of people could keep up with him when he put those attacks in. If we come to the conclusion that he was cheating based on the dominance of his attacks, how can you not also pass judgement on Boonen in 2011?

Exactly. Plenty of supposed or admitted dopers have had break away accelerations even at some hefty altitudes well into lengthy stages. And they're not being suspected of motors back then. The motors have to be small to fit in the tubes so probably low HP, relatively low torque. High torque would be needed for breakaway accelerations. The motors would provide constant supplemental power.

[CunegoFan]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

I think Gaimon has some good insights about the professional peloton, but this isn't any better than a bunch of guys behind keyboards watching grainy youtube videos and deciding he is guilty based on a hunch.

You would have to be an idiot not to think Cancellara wasn't doping along with everyone else but this is the deep insider knowledge Gaimon brings to the table: He watched some old Youtube videos and a guy who likely dropped two bags the night before and has thighs as big as my waist pulls away quickly when he gives it the beans so it must be a tiny motor? Next up, Gaimon determines criminality based on the shapes of people's skulls or the bumps on their heads.

[berserk87]

http://road.cc/content/news/232071-u...ian-cancellara

I read Gaimon's comment as more of a funny reflection than something that he thought would lead to an autopsy on a retired race bike. It's not a definitive accusation - the use of the word "probably" rules that out. And I don't think that the UCI is going to do anything. These reporting websites are also trying to snag readers by making more of the story than it is.

However, there is a bit of difference in terms of credibility between Gaimon and the rest of us keyboard jockeys: he was actually in the pro peloton for a number of years. If you ask me who I would believe about goings-on in pro bike racing (some random person on a cycling forum or a recently retired pro), I would lean toward the pro. Being a pro does not make him infallible, but I would tend to believe him versus the collective "us" if he were being serious (which I don't think he is).

Sure he's trying to sell books, and funny is his thing. The piece from his book is a half-hearted swipe and an effort to get laughs.

Here's another version of the same story:

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/la...-by-uci-358390

[adub]

The UCI "may" investigate. Funny stuff!

[ultraman6970]

the bus is long gone for this, he won the races and is retired. What they need to do is to just start again from zero and put their eye more than ever in the problem.

[John H.]

I enjoy Phil's writing and generally think he is a straight up guy.

But he should keep to subjects that he has personal knowledge about- not start **** just for the sake of internet drama.

He could say something like- "I know that Fabian in his prime would straight up ride me off his wheel at will. Motor, no motor, doped or clean- he is a motor."

[Aldus]

Originally Posted by berserk87

I read Gaimon's comment as more of a funny reflection than something that he thought would lead to an autopsy on a retired race bike. It's not a definitive accusation - the use of the word "probably" rules that out. And I don't think that the UCI is going to do anything. These reporting websites are also trying to snag readers by making more of the story than it is.

This is how I took it in context of the whole book. I really didn't give a second thought to the line when I read it.

IMO this is cycling websites trying to use PG for traffic, not PG trying to sell books by being controversial.

[colbyh]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

So, for sure Cancellara's max power for an attack is beyond what Gaimon could imagine. "his accelerations don't look natural at all" Indeed. Only a handful of people could keep up with him when he put those attacks in. If we come to the conclusion that he was cheating based on the dominance of his attacks, how can you not also pass judgement on Boonen in 2011?

While I agree that PG just seems to be stirring up trouble, I think that spending 10 years as a pro would give him a pretty good eye for spotting "unnatural accelerations" even via video. Same way a semi-casual rider can recognize a particularly fluid pedal stroke on the road (out here at least usually indicating pro or former-pro status).

And yeah, I think that smart money is on both Boonen and Cancellara not being clean for all of their big wins.

[r_mutt]

https://youtu.be/z6z7uUe0tVA?t=2m34s

this is such and old debate but watch his right hand. this unusual movement has been debated ever since that win.

pulls out 250-300 meters in 10 seconds...

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by r_mutt

https://youtu.be/z6z7uUe0tVA?t=2m34s

watch his right hand. this unusual movement has been debated ever since that win.

Back and to the left. Back...and to the left.

Back...and to the left.

[BobO]

Originally Posted by r_mutt

pulls out 250-300 meters in 10 seconds...

I'm not real strong with math, but, 300 meters in 10 seconds = 30 m/s = 108 KPH, assuming Boonen was moving at all, Cancellara would be doing what,... 130 KPH, 80 MPH up the Muur? What's the wattage required to do that,... 10,878? Good god, that motor technology needs to become public, it'll save the world.

I'd suspect if he'd been doing even half that someone would have noticed.

[r_mutt]

Originally Posted by BobO

I'm not real strong with math, but, 300 meters in 10 seconds = 30 m/s = 108 KPH, assuming Boonen was moving at all, Cancellara would be doing what,... 130 KPH, 80 MPH up the Muur? What's the wattage required to do that,... 10,878? Good god, that motor technology needs to become public, it'll save the world.

I'd suspect if he'd been doing even half that someone would have noticed.

Looking at again, and watching the clock, it's about a minute and it's quite a large gap. Massive. it was such a large gap, everyone noticed. That's why it's so often cited.



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