future of campy and lower gearing?

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Right now Chorus-12 is the only crankset offered in 48/32, which i think is an awesome front gear combo for what i do. paired with 11-34 in the back, it covers everything i would ever need.

does anyone have any insight or insider knowledge of where campy is going in the near future?

will be see centaur expanded to a lower gearing crank? maybe return veloce or potenza to the scene ?

there are rumors of the 1x13 group coming? what model will that group be? something new?

Daytona?? hello???

i would love to see an alloy centaur or potenza or athena crankset with 48/32 rings come to light soon.

any ideas??

Yes, I have ideas. I've seen the media presentation of what's coming out this month, in August and in September. All of it was supposed to be out for NAHBS but with COVID, everything got pushed back to the summer and fall.

Originally Posted by Coffee Rider

I don't see Campy doing subcompact in Record or SR unless sales on subcompact Chorus are really good. I'm not sure if the Chorus 12 rings work on either of the higher groups.

Sort of from what I'd heard, it seems like 1x13 will be more of a Chorus level or lower type group.

I would really like a nice modern polished Campy group, but I'm not holding out too much hope since I don't think there would be a big enough market to support it.

Chorus 12 rings are the same as Record and Super Record. Just as Chorus 11 rings are the same as Record and Super Record. Same SKU's.

[robertbb]

Also very interested in this. No idea what's going to happen, other than rumours which have all been stated, but I hope it happens soon.

As to the 1x question, I've never ridden a 1x setup but as an experiment I've gone out for rides where I've kept the front in the small chainring (36t) and deliberately skipped gears on the cassette to emulate (as far as possible) the available steps of a wider 1x setup.

Took some getting used to, but eventually I settled into the cadence variations just fine. For solo riding and touring I think it's fine. Probably still lacks the nuance and fine-grained adjustment as a 2x setup for fast group rides though.

1x13 is getting very, very close to a full spread of 2x gears while maintaining close (read: 2x) jumps for a lot of the high gears and without going too silly on the jumps between lower gears. You really just lack the extreme high or extreme low.... or, with astute chainring choice, you can bias your setup high or low.... not bad at all.

I've enjoyed playing with the following gear ratio site. Just slide the chainrings and cogs around and compare the steps above - very well done!

http://ritzelrechner.de/

(Be sure to hit the "compare" button down the bottom right of screen before you start so you can overlay to combo's. Then just click into either of the gear windows before making adjustments)

Bringing this back to Campy, well, the Chorus crank looks to be designed for smaller rings and perhaps a 1x. I do hope they introduce an alloy UT crankset... that isn't *too* heavy.

[fijichf]

I read somewhere that Campagnolo dropped the name Daytona and Bianchi dropped the name Talladega at the same time (2002?) due to a challenge by NASCAR...who knows.

[Hellgate]

I just want a wireless SR group.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by fijichf

I read somewhere that Campagnolo dropped the name Daytona and Bianchi dropped the name Talladega at the same time (2002?) due to a challenge by NASCAR...who knows.

The Daytona name was dropped due to NASCAR. Which is funny cause you can use a name if it's not in a related field. But they didn't want to deal with it so they dropped it.
Same for Talladega.
The whole Roubaix thing with Specialized was a different situation which of course they had no right to it anyways. Epic is another one that S tries to fight over.

[Toddykins]

If one draws a venn diagram of riders looking for 1x and riders looking for Campy, I suspect the overlap is very small.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Toddykins

If one draws a venn diagram of riders looking for 1x and riders looking for Campy, I suspect the overlap is very small.

Certainly enough on the forum here screech about how they ignore gravel. Well, a 1x group would mean they're not ignoring gravel. And people will screech about that.

Can't win for losing.

[AngryScientist]

i wonder how the market for 1x in europe compares to the market for 1x in the US?

or the market for gravel in general?

seems in the US, gravel is the new hot segment - is this consistent across the pond? is there an explosion of gravel racing and fondo type events in europe like we have here?

what about asia market?

[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

And see where that case went.

Had the 'Roubaix Cafe' been an ice cream shop, with no connection at all to bicycles, there never would have been any case. Even as it was, trying to extend the 'Roubaix' name from a model of bicycle to a bicycle shop was still a very tenuous stretch. Had the bicycle shop been able to afford to hire expensive lawyers, they could have easily batted down any law suite like that.

I read that this particular shop was selling wheels with Roubaix Cafe decals. I don’t know if this is true, but I did look and Specialized held a Canadian trademark that covered bicycle components including wheels. The shop name wasn’t the issue apparently.

Fuji said they had the “global trademark” per their PR statement but as far as I am aware, no such thing exists and I didn’t see any trademark filed by Fuji or their parent in Canada. Whether or not Specialized’s contract for use of the mark in the US bared them from registering it anywhere else, we will probably never know.



Back on topic, I am with angry. I bet the take rate on the chorus subcompact was high. I am skeptical we will see it offered with SR and R, but chorus and below seems like a safe play.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

The name "Daytona" by itself can't be trademarked, as it has been the name of a city for hundreds of years.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

See: Roubaix

Originally Posted by Mark McM

And see where that case went.

Had the 'Roubaix Cafe' been an ice cream shop, with no connection at all to bicycles, there never would have been any case. Even as it was, trying to extend the 'Roubaix' name from a model of bicycle to a bicycle shop was still a very tenuous stretch. Had the bicycle shop been able to afford to hire expensive lawyers, they could have easily batted down any law suite like that.

You're missing the point:

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...d#.XwOqQi2z2fc

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

i wonder how the market for 1x in europe compares to the market for 1x in the US?

or the market for gravel in general?

seems in the US, gravel is the new hot segment - is this consistent across the pond? is there an explosion of gravel racing and fondo type events in europe like we have here?

what about asia market?

Europe is getting big for gravel. The US is still the biggest. It's kind of like how 29'ers went. The US led the 29 wheel size charge. Europe took longer for that. Germany especially so for some reason. But they caught up. Gravel is the same. Asia is VERY different. They are more road than gravel. It hasn't caught on as much as Europe.

[dddd]

MTB-style ratio gaps starting with 12, 14, 16t... work perfectly well for general riding. Only for competitive riding was the 1t ratio gap ever needed.

With today's mere 11s cassettes, this means that even 11-42t can give tight enough ratios for general riding, and precludes the need for any big ratio gap between chainrings.

I'm not a fan of 1x though due to the severe chainline, particularly when the factory-set chainline is biased toward the smaller end of the cassette.
So often this is due to anticipated/marketed largest tire sizes that are never actually used.

So make it a tight double, heck make it a triple even, and keep the chainring ratio gaps user-friendly rather than the annoying 16t gap that is really starting to seem so painfully dated (even as it is still near it's peak of oem spec).

Those big awkward chainring ratio gaps made so much sense when we were riding 6-speed freewheels. Yet today we have only handlebar shifting (or optional electronic shifting) to offset the problem.

Still waiting for technically-updated triples and quads to show how it should be done (close-ratio, closer-spaced, unified-structure chainrings).
Unfortunately many of today's molded frames are literally designed around current, dated status-quo 2x and 1x chainsets, just as some of the mtb's now made could never run bigger than a 34t or even 32t single chainring (and have very inefficient chainline).

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by thirdgenbird

I read that this particular shop was selling wheels with Roubaix Cafe decals. I don’t know if this is true, but I did look and Specialized held a Canadian trademark that covered bicycle components including wheels. The shop name wasn’t the issue apparently.

Fuji said they had the “global trademark” per their PR statement but as far as I am aware, no such thing exists and I didn’t see any trademark filed by Fuji or their parent in Canada. Whether or not Specialized’s contract for use of the mark in the US bared them from registering it anywhere else, we will probably never know.

Back on topic, I am with angry. I bet the take rate on the chorus subcompact was high. I am skeptical we will see it offered with SR and R, but chorus and below seems like a safe play.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

You're missing the point:

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...d#.XwOqQi2z2fc

The whole thing with Roubaix was due to it being a related field. The S problem was they actually had no standing but pushed the issue. Fuji had the actual rights. That's why S caved. It's the same with the word 'EPIC'. They claim they own it for anything bicycle related. The joke has been if someone said it in a bike shop S would sue them. They've gone after shops who've used it. Only 1 shop I know of has gotten away with it cause they had it just before S filed.

It's kind of like Vittoria tires and Vittoria shoes. At one point Vittoria tires reached out to Vittoria shoes and told them they needed to change the name. Edoardo who owns Vittoria Shoes looked and found out they had the name 2 weeks before Vittoria Tires. The tire company stopped calling after that.

[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

The whole thing with Roubaix was due to it being a related field. The S problem was they actually had no standing but pushed the issue. Fuji had the actual rights.

I really don’t think this is the case. When the news broke, I could find absolutely no evidence that ASI held a trademark for Roubaix in Canada but Specialized clearly did.

Here is the registration from 2007

https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/t...gth=25&start=0

The opposite was true in my search for the US. ASI owned this one. The link above seems to support that. It specifically says Specialized agreed to buy the US mark. No mention of the Canadian mark.

Again, I don’t know if Specialized had an agreement with ASI that bared them from claiming the mark in Canada but they did hold it. It came up in a cursory Canadian trademark search. Whatever the case, I though the whole ASI “global trademark” statement looked a bit silly. The whole thing was a bit silly.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

The whole thing with Roubaix was due to it being a related field. The S problem was they actually had no standing but pushed the issue. Fuji had the actual rights.

You are also missing the point.

Originally Posted by Mark McM

The name "Daytona" by itself can't be trademarked, as it has been the name of a city for hundreds of years.

Title of article in previous link:

"Specialized agrees to pay $700k for Roubaix trademark in the US"

Roubaix is a city in France. It's been around a lot longer than Daytona.