Record Pista BB (Italian) Oh where have you gone?

[r_mutt]

When did Campagnolo stop making these? I can't seem to find them anywhere.

[slambers3]

https://www.probikekit.com/bottom-br.../10777323.html

Google search yielded a few other vendors as well.

[r_mutt]

Sorry, I need to specify. I'm looking for an Italian Record Pista BB. They seem to be hard to find.

[MURDERF4CE]

Centaur BB will work if you cant find the Record Pista Bb

[r_mutt]

Thanks - any disadvantage to a Centaur BB? I'm assuming weight and bearing quality?

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by r_mutt

Thanks - any disadvantage to a Centaur BB? I'm assuming weight and bearing quality?

Bearings will be the same, afaik. Only real difference is a carbon shell for negligible weight savings. Centaur will work just fine.

[r_mutt]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Bearings will be the same, afaik. Only real difference is a carbon shell for negligible weight savings. Centaur will work just fine.

Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[slowpoke]

I've long supported using the Centaur 111mm BB because loads of people on LFGSS have done it, and I've had no problems in the 7+ years of my setup. However, I just ran a search and came up with some words of caution from gfk_velo who is also a member here and the head technician at Velotech Cycling in the UK:

https://www.bikeforums.net/20896790-post3.html

04-23-19, 07:06 AM

Don't use the 111mm Centaur BB, the length of the taper is insufficient and there is a high probability of a crack radiating out from one corner of the square taper being formed. The crank usually migrates up the taper to the point where the "scallop" from round to square section starts and a point load is generated at each corner of the square taper broaching, leading to failure.

We had a rash of these failures back in 2008/9 when building fixies suddenly got trendy and a number of riders (and indeed shop mechanics) were not aware of the problem ...

This happens because the Centaur BB is, as you say, ISO wheras the taper pattern used in the Pista crankset is not - it's the original Campagnolo taper that predates ISO and JIS. The Pista chainset in it's current form goes back to the late 80s, early 90s which predates the ISO and JIS standards coming into common use and Campag never changed it because they specify the Pista crankset for track use and make a track BB to suit - which doesn't have any weather sealing to speak of, for obvious reasons.

The old AC-H and AC-S BBs that you have used before have the same taper as a Pista BB as they, too, are old, pre ISO units.

Phil Wood, as you note, still suit these cranks and I think you can still get Cliff at Royce to machine you a Ti Axle to suit, if you ask nicely

Avoid mounting to a JIS BB because the load will only be bourne over about 70% of the designed area and that in itself can lead to creaking, taper failure and so on, plus the chainline will be questionable because the eaxct amount the cranks will draw up the tapers is very dependant on the manufacturing tolerances of the BB axle and the number of times the cranks have been on and off an axle before ... that's true of the correct axle as well, of course but the tolerances will all be in a known range ...

[Dino Suegiù]

What about a Phil Wood Campagnolo Square Taper bottom bracket with ITA cups?

[Hindmost]

Wait, what? There's a difference between Campagnolo and ISO square tapers? And Campy made both?

Did Sheldon know this?

[AngryScientist]

it depends on what your intentions are of course, but an actual pista BB is not the best for the road, if it will see less than ideal conditions.

i killed the bearings in one in pretty short order of foul weather riding.

the centaur unit is a good choice, phil wood is probably the gold standard. i think you can get an SKF in that configuration as well as the budget Velo Orange option.

[r_mutt]

Originally Posted by Dino Suegiù

What about a Phil Wood Campagnolo Square Taper bottom bracket with ITA cups?

ITA cups would need to be made by Phil Wood, no? AFAIK, the bearings are the same as BSA in the Record Pista BB it's the Italian cups that hold the BB and spindle in place that aren't available.

Originally Posted by Hindmost

Wait, what? There's a difference between Campagnolo and ISO square tapers? And Campy made both?

Did Sheldon know this?

I bet he did!

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

it depends on what your intentions are of course, but an actual pista BB is not the best for the road, if it will see less than ideal conditions.

i killed the bearings in one in pretty short order of foul weather riding.

the centaur unit is a good choice, phil wood is probably the gold standard. i think you can get an SKF in that configuration as well as the budget Velo Orange option.

yes, this is for use on a track frame with a Record Pista crankset. I remember reading that the bearings aren't sealed on the Record Pista BB so bad for road bikes that see mixed conditions. Maybe I'll have a look at Phil Wood.



when did Campagnolo stop making Italian Pista BB's?

[Dino Suegiù]

Originally Posted by r_mutt

ITA cups would need to be made by Phil Wood, no? AFAIK, the bearings are the same as BSA in the Record Pista BB it's the Italian cups that hold the BB and spindle in place that aren't available.

The cups are made by PW, even in a choice of stainless steel or alu.
The PW bottom brackets use PW bearings, also a choice: "Standard PWX03" or "PWN93 low drag Carbonyte"; specific sizes are on the bearings page.
Spindles are available in stainless steel (Standard bb) or titanium (Pro bb); spindle offset can even be customized, upon request, if desired.

Just go to Phil Wood Square Taper Bottom Brackets, all the options are there.

The best square-taper bottom brackets available. Lifetime spinning, they are beautiful to look at, and beautifully made.



Of course he did: Sheldon knew everything!

[r_mutt]

Originally Posted by Dino Suegiù

The cups are made by PW, even in a choice of stainless steel or alu.
The PW bottom brackets use PW bearings, also a choice: "Standard PWX03" or "PWN93 low drag Carbonyte"; specific sizes are on the bearings page.
Spindles are available in stainless steel (Standard bb) or titanium (Pro bb); spindle offset can even be customized, upon request, if desired.

Just go to Phil Wood Square Taper Bottom Brackets, all the options are there.

The best square-taper bottom brackets available. Lifetime spinning, they are beautiful to look at, and beautifully made.

Of course he did: Sheldon knew everything!

they are pricey for a BB but they seem quality. thanks!

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by r_mutt

Thanks - any disadvantage to a Centaur BB? I'm assuming weight and bearing quality?

Record spindle was a bulged, thin walled center section affair, little lighter. The bearings are the same, Record and Centaur. I have a cup and ball, 70SPc, 111mm BB. What CRecord era called for. $150 plus ship.

GFK velo, bless his heart. I wouldn’t worry about using a Centaur BB and Campag still makes Pista cranks and bbs, non sealed, like the 102mm but 111mm...

I know he mentions the AC-H BB(Alloy Cup-Hollow) as being the pre ISO standard but when the Centaur BB came out, the cranks that previously used the AC-H didn’t change so..