OT: 2019-20 NBA Discussions

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

I'm pretty sure that Westbrook gets moved by Dec 15, when all the guys that signed new contracts this summer are eligible for trade. If the right partner is available, then before the season. Westbrook isn't really in for a full rebuild, and Presti wants to a) get out of the tax and b) get on with the rebuild. This is a mutually desirable transaction - get Russ on a competitive team and let the Thunder move forward, something they couldn't do with Russ and that contract in the way.

That contract is... whoa... but I still think there are a few options available, and there will be teams willing to go for it since the league is so open and uncertain now. Riley probably wants to make one more big splash in Miami before he retires. Butler and Westbrook are a weird fit, but whatever. The Pistons are another decent option, pairing Blake and Russ probably moves them from 8 seed to 4 or 5 seed. I think it's also a mistake to believe that just because Russ is a below average shooter and tends to force things and can be spacy on defense, that he is a bad player. He is an overpriced player, but he's still one of the 4 or 5 guys in the league that can be an offense all by himself. Elite passer, one of the best rebounding guards ever. He's got on-court value.

Just don't expect to win a playoff series with him as your #1 guy. The Blazers dared him to shoot and he shot OKC straight outta that series. Both the numbers and the eyeball test from last year show his legs are starting to go, and it isn't as if his game could be described in any way as "crafty." How will he handle no longer being the best player on a team anymore, because that's coming sooner rather than later.

Don't get me wrong, I love watching Westbrook, but this just screams ending like Carmelo Anthony did. Bouncing around the league and trying to find a fit, but unable to adjust to a post-Father Time world.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Just don't expect to win a playoff series with him as your #1 guy. The Blazers dared him to shoot and he shot OKC straight outta that series. Both the numbers and the eyeball test from last year show his legs are starting to go, and it isn't as if his game could be described in any way as "crafty." How will he handle no longer being the best player on a team anymore, because that's coming sooner rather than later.

Don't get me wrong, I love watching Westbrook, but this just screams ending like Carmelo Anthony did. Bouncing around the league and trying to find a fit, but unable to adjust to a post-Father Time world.

I agree with everything you wrote, I just think there is some GM/owner out there that is going to say "Eff it, let's go for it."

[jacobslide]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

I agree with everything you wrote, I just think there is some GM/owner out there that is going to say "Eff it, let's go for it."

That sounds like the Knicks to me!

Though it may be fair to ask which superstar wants to play with him. Seems like both he and Bron are having a little bit more difficult of a time keeping younger stars with them.

Mostly I'm curious what happens with DLo. Does it all depend on how well they do? Or, what? Also, there may be some incentive to keep the top 20 pick. The first they traded to the Nets is top 20 protected, and then resolves to like a 2026 second rounder...

[XXtwindad]

The Warriors' "New Two" ....

[jacobslide]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

The Warriors' "New Two" ....

Man pre-moped Monta was something

[Louis]

https://nyti.ms/2YPIWzQ

Westbrook to Houston in exchange for CP3 and draft picks.

Harden and Westbrook together again? Can that possibly work, now that they're even bigger stars than they were when they last played together?

Will Chris Paul even play a game for OKC, or will they just turn around and trade him?

[XXtwindad]

Damn. That's just comical. What's the over/under on how many games it takes that combo to explode? And how many draft picks has Sam Presti vacuumed up? OKC might be the team of the next decade ...

[MikeD]

Man, looks like the Warriors are done for next year. Oh well, nice while it lasted.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Damn. That's just comical. What's the over/under on how many games it takes that combo to explode? And how many draft picks has Sam Presti vacuumed up? OKC might be the team of the next decade ...

I'll take the over, whatever it is. Russ and Harden are good friends, had nice chemistry in OKC and I think they have a strong enough coach to keep things under control. If MDA can finally teach Russ to cut off-ball, I don't see why Houston would not continue to be one of the 3-4 best offenses in the league.

Presti is not done yet. They are only $3M away from the tax line and there is no way Clay Bennett is paying the tax to finish in the lottery. I'd expect that CP3 gets moved to a contender after Dec 15, but maybe he stays. If so, there is a nice story there. He's kinda the godfather of basketball in OKC, having played there before sold-out crowds when the Hornets relocated due to Katrina. No CP3, there's no proof of concept to move the Sonics from Seattle.

It would be super awesome if OKC could parlay all their draft picks into a solid young core. Maybe they'd even reach the Finals in their 2nd year together and be poised on the cusp of a dynasty, and then trade one of the key components in the next offseason over a contract squabble, then their all-world generational talent forward would leave a few years later to join the team he just lost to. Sounds too crazy to be true.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Man, looks like the Warriors are done for next year. Oh well, nice while it lasted.

I think the W's are taking a sabbatical next year, but they'll be good again in 2021. You'll still have the Curry/Klay/Dray core, and they'll be in a much better financial and trade asset position to build around that then they have been the last couple years.

[jtakeda]

Now that okc has decided to hit the explode button a DLo for Steven Adams trade would make me smile.

[Jaybee]

Man, I'd miss that dude. Adams is my favorite player. He's really good at the things he does (and I hope he averages 15 rebounds this year, now that he's not just boxing out for Russ), but there's just no way that you can pay a center that isn't your best player $25M a year in 2020. As such, if there is a place to move Steve, you have to do it as part of the rebuild. I'm not sure you take back DLo (since you already have SGA and possibly CP3) and his max, but if he does go the Dubs, you'll love him. It would be a huge loss. He's only 25 years old, and he's probably the best connection the Thunder have left to what they consider their "family first" culture.


FWIW, are we sure that a CP3-Gallinari-Adams core isn't a 0.500 team at least? I'm not sure they make the playoffs, but that's just because the West is stacked even more than it was a couple years ago.


Rewriting this list that I made a couple weeks ago:

Obvious playoff teams - LAC, LAL, Jazz, Denver, Blazers, Rockets
Fighting for the last two spots - Spurs, GSW, OKC (assuming no further teardown), Dallas
Probably bad - Minny, NO
Definitely bad - Sacto, Memphis, PHX,

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Man, I'd miss that dude. Adams is my favorite player. He's really good at the things he does (and I hope he averages 15 rebounds this year, now that he's not just boxing out for Russ), but there's just no way that you can pay a center that isn't your best player $25M a year in 2020. As such, if there is a place to move Steve, you have to do it as part of the rebuild. I'm not sure you take back DLo (since you already have SGA and possibly CP3) and his max, but if he does go the Dubs, you'll love him.


FWIW, are we sure that a CP3-Gallinari-Adams core isn't a 0.500 team at least? I'm not sure they make the playoffs, but that's just because the West is stacked even more than it was a couple years ago.


Rewriting this list that I made a couple weeks ago:

Obvious playoff teams - LAC, LAL, Jazz, Denver, Blazers, Rockets
Fighting for the last two spots - Spurs, GSW, OKC (assuming no further teardown), Dallas
Probably bad - Minny, NO
Definitely bad - Sacto, Memphis, PHX,

I doubt CP3 stays long. He doesn't fit their timeline or the fact that SGA looked like, at points, the best player on the floor for an 8 seed that gave the Warriors all they could handle (and would portend what was coming in Oakland, sadly). And the guy is of legal drinking age in the US as of today.

As Zach Lowe pointed out, one of the secret possible losers in this deal is, sigh, the Hawks. That 2022 pick they received as part of the Melo/Schroder deal is lottery protected. If the Thunder are bad, this reverts to two second round picks.

Sigh...

Full credit to Presti though. I've never seen a team do this before as effectively or as quickly.


And minor topic drift: But can we discuss Grayson Allen as the biggest goon in the NBA? Two flagrant 1s including obvious headhunting in the span of 8 seconds to get tossed from a Summer League game? Where, if Grant Williams was a less kind and more aggressive human being, would have ripped Grayson's arms off?

[jacobslide]

It sounds as if CP3 might be headed to the Heat... we shall see.

And, Iggy to the Mavs?

[jacobslide]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

No CP3, there's no proof of concept to move the Sonics from Seattle.

So you're saying, I can add another item to my list of things to hate CP3 for? Awesome.