Mid-reach brake performance on dirt/gravel?

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by weisan

XX pal, I have been following your posts on this topic for quite some time. I think you have been very consistent as far as expressing your opinions on the type of braking or the braking power necessary for your terrain of choice i.e. the SF Bay area.

You asked for opinions, folks gave theirs, then you followed up by saying "not good enough for where I am from."

Then you go away for a while, a few months later you come back with the same question.

Repeat, rinse, repeat.

Is there a point in all these?

I have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about. I love mid-reach frames. Almost all my road bikes now have them.

I hope the rest of your week is better 🍻

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by p nut

Bumping this up, if for nothing than to gaze at the Kirk on the first page again.

I’ve been on the hunt for a short-reach frame that clears 30’s. ie Ritchey Road Logic.
But I’m wondering if I can make mid-reach work. With brakes positioned like the Kirk to maximize clearance (for 38’s). But would pushing the pads way down, minimizing leverage be a concern? There are some rougher dirt roads here. 38’s would be fine but the roads are fairly steep and loose. Discs are king here. But I’d like to try mid-reach brakes out.
But it’s a lot of dough for an experiment, as I’d need to go custom.

But 38’s fitting under simple caliper brakes on a springy fork…. That’d be my dream bike.

If you connect with a good builder, and discuss what you want, have them take some measurements, choose a color then get out of the way it's more of a smart investment than an experiment. Tom Kellogg built me exactly what you're pining for, with clearance for 38s (40 is a possible squeeze but I'd rather have a little more clearance), supple fork blades, and brake reach right at 57mm. So maxed out for for most mid-reach calipers, but I'm using Paul Racer centerpulls with the pads near the top of the slots, as the design of the arms gives me more space for fenders when I want to use them. And the brakes have better performance (equal stopping power, better modulation) than my Ultegra/8000 series calipers on my other road bikes. Stop messing around and get in Dave's queue, or another builder who does a lot of these and get what you really want and you can stop the window shopping. Sell off some of your herd for the deposit, as they'll be neglected once you have "the one" anyway. You'll have some time to save for the rest while you wait. Patience is rewarded...

Edit: BTW, I also have a Ritchey Road Logic that fits 30s. I ride them both, differently as the Ritchey is my lighter, more zippy road bike but mostly just because of a carbon fork and lighter components, but honestly the Spectrum does whatever the Ritchey does and more, if it shows up in the classifieds it means I'm 6 feet under, my wife knows the asking price and she's a harder negotiator than I would be, so get in line for your own.

[weisan]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about. I love mid-reach frames. Almost all my road bikes now have them.

I hope the rest of your week is better 🍻

hahaha, don't worry about it!

[edward12]

Here's my 2017 Rock Lobster built around Shimano R650 long reach brakes. My original concept was a road bike with clearance for 28mm tires and fenders for year-round rides. After moving to Madera, California, which is near the Sierra Nevada Foothills, I mounted 35mm Gravel Kings and hit the gravel roads surrounding the area. I've been very happy. There's plenty of tire clearance and braking performance is excellent - as long as it's dry. Side-pull calipers do not clear mud very well. For more challenging terrain, I turn to my other Rock Lobster "all-road" bike with canti's and clearance for 2.3 inch tires.

[p nut]

Originally Posted by zennmotion

If you connect with a good builder, and discuss what you want, have them take some measurements, choose a color then get out of the way it's more of a smart investment than an experiment. Tom Kellogg built me exactly what you're pining for, with clearance for 38s (40 is a possible squeeze but I'd rather have a little more clearance), supple fork blades, and brake reach right at 57mm. So maxed out for for most mid-reach calipers, but I'm using Paul Racer centerpulls with the pads near the top of the slots, as the design of the arms gives me more space for fenders when I want to use them. And the brakes have better performance (equal stopping power, better modulation) than my Ultegra/8000 series calipers on my other road bikes. Stop messing around and get in Dave's queue, or another builder who does a lot of these and get what you really want and you can stop the window shopping. Sell off some of your herd for the deposit, as they'll be neglected once you have "the one" anyway. You'll have some time to save for the rest while you wait. Patience is rewarded...

Edit: BTW, I also have a Ritchey Road Logic that fits 30s. I ride them both, differently as the Ritchey is my lighter, more zippy road bike but mostly just because of a carbon fork and lighter components, but honestly the Spectrum does whatever the Ritchey does and more, if it shows up in the classifieds it means I'm 6 feet under, my wife knows the asking price and she's a harder negotiator than I would be, so get in line for your own.

Ha! I have been selling off bikes. Currently at 3, but will be selling a dropbar MTB as well (and probably the IF Crown Jewel). I’ve been eyeing a Specialized Crux to serve both road and gravel. But I’m a steel guy at heart. And every time I look at that Kirk and similar, it tugs at me.
I do want something that will be fast and keep up with my friends on carbon bikes, so old frames are out of the question. As my legs are weak and heart feeble. Nice springy custom is probably the way to go.

By the way, all that talk and you don’t post a single picture?

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by prototoast

The mud in the east bay is so nasty that I assume you won't ride in it anyway, so mud clearance isn't a big deal.

But on the flip side, the dry dirt can be pretty abrasive against your rims. I always felt pretty bad dragging my rim brakes down long, dusty descents.

This.

Disc rotors are $50/ea. Disc pads are cheap. New rims? Not so much..

[thwart]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

Just for the exercise -- these are 36.6mm tires under Shimano mid-reach BR-650 brakes. The pads are at the bottom of the slots, but I think you could even move them up a mm or so:



I know you could fit another mm around the sides and top, so a true 38mm tire would fit.

I'm pretty sure you'd need to deflate the tire to get it past the brake pads, though, unless you had a "double quick release" with a button up at the levers and also the tab down on the brake calipers themselves.

Or a single release and also open the brake adjuster on the brake calipers all the way… well, almost.

This bike rocks, and also rides over rocks.

Same brakes as above. It gets transported occasionally, so the front wheel gets removed (without deflating the 38 mm RH Barlow Pass). It’s tight but do-able.

Someone earlier mentioned the grinding sound when braking and descending on dirt/gravel. Yeah, that’s hard to listen to, but at the same time these A23 rims seem to be holding up well after several years of use.

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by p nut

ha! I have been selling off bikes. Currently at 3, but will be selling a dropbar mtb as well (and probably the if crown jewel). I’ve been eyeing a specialized crux to serve both road and gravel. But i’m a steel guy at heart. And every time i look at that kirk and similar, it tugs at me.
I do want something that will be fast and keep up with my friends on carbon bikes, so old frames are out of the question. As my legs are weak and heart feeble. Nice springy custom is probably the way to go.

By the way, all that talk and you don’t post a single picture?
:d

Not the best pictures, but I don't take many of the bike, usually more interested in the scenery or just riding Pictured are just 32mm tires, my sweet spot for local mixed surface rides (YMMV-- your mud may vary) and still feels like a traditional road bike, but 35s fit with fenders, 38s without fenders, with slower handling.

Originally Posted by zennmotion

20240107_135759(1).jpg

[p nut]

zenn, thwart - Yes! Those bikes are pretty sweet! Exactly what I’m imagining.

Rim brake wear: having mountain biked extensively during the Canti/v-brake era with mud and dirt galore caked on the rims and pads…. I’m not too concerned.