OT: sportwagen

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Blue Jays

It is astonishing to me the gorgeous wagons sold to the European market are not even given a chance in the North American market.
My hope is that manufacturers will one day soon "roll the dice" and see if they can make a go of it here and perhaps offer them again.

Not a chance. The US is the land of mini/midsize/fullsize SUVs..Wagons like the GSW, etc are a nitch to say the least. It's all about $ and marketing..and the US consumer is brainwashed into thinking they need a CRV or Rav-4 type thing.
Just look at a Subaru outback..it 'used' to be kinda a small wagon..now it's the same size as a Tiguan/Rav4/CRV..it's YUGE!!

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Not a chance. The US is the land of mini/midsize/fullsize SUVs..Wagons like the GSW, etc are a nitch to say the least. It's all about $ and marketing..and the US consumer is brainwashed into thinking they need a CRV or Rav-4 type thing.
Just look at a Subaru outback..it 'used' to be kinda a small wagon..now it's the same size as a Tiguan/Rav4/CRV..it's YUGE!!

Oh yeah, I think the outback is actually considered an SUV. Wife has one, its huge.

[AngryScientist]

Only time will tell, but like it or not we will be seeing more and more electric cars creep into the market. the winners in that game will be the more efficiently designed vehicles, and big SUVs may fall out of popular favor as this transition starts to really penetrate the passenger car market. perhaps wagons will get some attention at that time.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Only time will tell, but like it or not we will be seeing more and more electric cars creep into the market. the winners in that game will be the more efficiently designed vehicles, and big SUVs may fall out of popular favor as this transition starts to really penetrate the passenger car market. perhaps wagons will get some attention at that time.

I dunno man, American mind wants the biggest car. My buddy told me that, wants his wife and kids in an sub because he feels its safer against other suvs. They are bigger, will have more batteries, will have similar distance ranges. I think wagons have a different image in the usa. Women and older people drive em and real man don’t want to be seen in them. At least in part of the country.

[dbh]

Yeah, as much as I hate to admit it, the era of the wagon is over in the US. We went car shopping last summer and ended up with a used Mazda CX-5. I would love to have considered a wagon, but there was very little on the market. I wasn't interested in a used VW wagon for reliability reasons. At the time the market was flooded with used TDIs and not much else.

That said, the small sized CUV works great as a family hauler. It's easier to get kids into carseats when you're not as hunched over, and the wife likes being a little higher up. Since we mostly use the thing to putter around town and take a day trip here or there, it's not like performance and handling was our top concern. Plus gas mileage is better than our old Saturn sedan we got rid of to buy the Mazda. Enthusiasts may hate the CUV blob shift in the US market, but they do work very well as a practical family hauler.

[Ttx1]

It's interesting how quickly people forget about 2007-08-09.

That's when GM divested Hummer among other things...

Wagons come back when oil is > $125/barrel for the foreseeable future, in combination with other unfavorable economic conditions.

That's also when small cars, motorcycles, scooters, eBikes, and plain old bikes see a nice uptick.

It's been said before, but I'll say it again: If Americans pay what Europeans pay for gas, we'll drive a bit more like Europeans, i.e., smaller cars, wagons, and various bikes would be a lot more common.

They way things are going re: international trade, foreign policy, and overall economic indicators, we might see more "sport" wagons in the not too distant future...

Silver lining?

[tony_mm]

Originally Posted by Ttx1

It's interesting how quickly people forget about 2007-08-09.



That's when GM divested Hummer among other things...



Wagons come back when oil is > $125/barrel for the foreseeable future, in combination with other unfavorable economic conditions.



That's also when small cars, motorcycles, scooters, eBikes, and plain old bikes see a nice uptick.



It's been said before, but I'll say it again: If Americans pay what Europeans pay for gas, we'll drive a bit more like Europeans, i.e., smaller cars, wagons, and various bikes would be a lot more common.



They way things are going re: international trade, foreign policy, and overall economic indicators, we might see more "sport" wagons in the not too distant future...



Silver lining?

Totally agree!

[2metalhips]

The SUV trend reflects the super sizing of america. Can you see the average overweight/obese american driver getting in and out of a sportwagon? Fuggetaboutit! I have the rarely seen Acura TSX wagon.

[dbh]

Remember, in 2007/8 folks abandoned their large SUV's because gas spiked to $4 a gallon and they got terrible mileage. Now a Rav4 or CRV is on par mileage wise with most mid-sized sedans. I think my Mazda CUV gets better mileage than the Buick TourX. Hell even Chevy's new diesel Silverado brodozer of a pickup is expected to get 33 mpg combined. For sure the market for large trucks and SUVs could totally collapse with a coming recession, but it won't be because of gas mileage concerns.

[nickl]

Originally Posted by dbh

Remember, in 2007/8 folks abandoned their large SUV's because gas spiked to $4 a gallon and they got terrible mileage. Now a Rav4 or CRV is on par mileage wise with most mid-sized sedans. I think my Mazda CUV gets better mileage than the Buick TourX. Hell even Chevy's new diesel Silverado brodozer of a pickup is expected to get 33 mpg combined. For sure the market for large trucks and SUVs could totally collapse with a coming recession, but it won't be because of gas mileage concerns.

Not sure of your source for the 33mpg combined on the diesel Silverado but information from Chevy has it at 33mpg HIGHWAY. That still appears to be quite good. At least for the sometimes optimistic EPA rating.

But as they say, "Your mileage may vary"

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...-fuel-economy/

[sailorboy]

Sort of sad to hear that VW is killing wagons, especially since I just traded in my '16 GSW S. It was reasonably fun to drive, great on gas (saw over 40mpg occasionally) but had no safety features like lane keeping and also what I came to find were pretty uncomfortable seats for the longer daily commute I just started. Traded it toward a '19 volvo V60 wagon in the more affordable T5 FWD set up. Thx to volvo for keeping wagons on life support here. There is a reason people say their seats are the best in the business. It gets decent mpg for a 2-ton car in conservative highway driving~70-75m/hr getting low 30's.

I think/hope the T5 powertrain should be more reliable and less costly to own over time than their higher output offerings and I don't need AWD where I live (really unless you're in the upper mid-west, who does need it?) Only concern in the first few months is that the ipad style head unit has already glitched out and had to have it's software re-installed at the dealer. Less than confidence-inspiring especially since they pretty much eliminated all buttons and knobs from the dashboard on these cars now. So far it's a joy to drive though, and I'm proud to still be carrying the long roof torch.

[palincss]

Originally Posted by sailorboy

Sort of sad to hear that VW is killing wagons, especially since I just traded in my '16 GSW S. It was reasonably fun to drive, great on gas (saw over 40mpg occasionally) but had no safety features like lane keeping and also what I came to find were pretty uncomfortable seats for the longer daily commute I just started. Traded it toward a '19 volvo V60 wagon in the more affordable T5 FWD set up. Thx to volvo for keeping wagons on life support here. There is a reason people say their seats are the best in the business. It gets decent mpg for a 2-ton car in conservative highway driving~70-75m/hr getting low 30's.

I think/hope the T5 powertrain should be more reliable and less costly to own over time than their higher output offerings and I don't need AWD where I live (really unless you're in the upper mid-west, who does need it?) Only concern in the first few months is that the ipad style head unit has already glitched out and had to have it's software re-installed at the dealer. Less than confidence-inspiring especially since they pretty much eliminated all buttons and knobs from the dashboard on these cars now. So far it's a joy to drive though, and I'm proud to still be carrying the long roof torch.

Yes, but will it fit a bicycle in back? The old V-60 wouldn't.

[jtbadge]

If we're already conceding a back seat being folded down, the regular Golf and GTI hatchbacks will eat bikes. No need for the wagon.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

If we're already conceding a back seat being folded down, the regular Golf and GTI hatchbacks will eat bikes. No need for the wagon.

but on GTI, don't you have to take the front wheel out? that is kind of annoying. On the wagon you can just roll it on there.

[palincss]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

If we're already conceding a back seat being folded down, the regular Golf and GTI hatchbacks will eat bikes. No need for the wagon.

No, the Golf/GTI hatchback may take a small size bike without fenders with at least one if not two wheels off with the back seat down. If you want to put a 60cm bike with full metal fenders in the back without any hassles, you need the space of a wagon at least the interior size of the Golf / Alltrack. The previous model Audi Allroad's too small; the previous gen V-60 is too small; the previous gen BMW 3-series wagon is too small.