Cyclist shot in SC...

[ripvanrando]

Unpopular opinion here but if someone is on mind altering medicine such as an SSRI, this information should be available to the FBI's NICs system and the person should not have a gun, for their own safety mostly. Similar with drug offenses. Or dishonorable military discharges. It is all a hodgepodge state by state. I accept my view is not the norm.

I am unaware of any state that allows the sale of a firearm in any manner other than face to face. For instance, if a seller in PA wants to sell me a firearm, I can't buy it off them in person nor can they ship it to me (federal felony crime). The seller has to go to a FFL (licensed firearm dealer) to transfer it to me with the aforementioned form and then the call to FBI for the NICs check. Common misconception that people legally buy guns over the internet or that people sell guns at gun shows without NICs checks. Criminals do those types of illegal transactions.

It would be interesting to me to know how this wack job got a firearm and how he kept it given the reports of his behaviour.

[jamesdak]

Unless something changed here in UT in the last year or so we can still do private sales which require nothing.

[ripvanrando]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

Unless something changed here in UT in the last year or so we can still do private sales which require nothing.

P2P sales are still allowed in several states like Utah but not if one party is out of state (active duty military are the only exception in Utah). The firearm cannot be shipped across state lines and both parties must be residents of Utah.


In NJ there is one exception, a dad/mom can transfer long guns to son/daughter without a NICs or FFL involved, there is paperwork but nothing hard. A handgun requires permits (finger prints, special background checks, etc) and in effect, registration of the handgun with local, state, and FBI. A similar provision in PA allows family transfers.

Some gunowners do not like having to go to an FFL to sell say a shotgun to a friend because the FBI Instant Background check can take weeks these days and all the transfer fees can add up to $100 with $50 being the cheapest around here. It means buyer and seller both have to go there and the buyer has to return to get the gun at some undefined period of time and FFL dealers usually do not have a lot of space, so, they want you to come in immediately once they get the ok from the government. These checks used to take 15-20 minutes but the explosion of gun sale in the past year have flooded the FBI and they cannot handle the volume.

[Dead Man]

theres "record guns sales" reported by the media every year since before the 2008 election... also happens to be states have been passing legislation to require private and gun show transfers during that period, which means all those used guns that changed hands over and over with no reporting are now being reported for the first time ever, yet ive never seen a distinction made between new gun sales and used gun transfers.

im not a gun nut, but ive purchased probably 50+ firearms in my life, half of those without a 4473 - ALL of those since background checks were required in my state. ive also sold about the same number of guns. one dude, buying, then selling, used guns.. so theres probably 100ish 4473s out there im personally responsible for over the last 20 years. the number of NEW guns all those 4473s represent? maybe 10. i dont buy new stuff if theres perfectly good used stuff available - guns, bikes, clothes, climbing gear, skis, cars, etc

but, eh, this dude was 62 and lives in the south.... is there reason to believe he didnt acquire the gun he used 40 years ago? what good would legislation do in that situation? there are more guns than people in this country, folks... we're swimming in guns. write all the laws ye want, gun violence isnt something you can solve over night, or over decade, or probably even over century, in this country.

[bicycletricycle]

Originally Posted by ripvanrando

The right to own a firearm is already limited by law, there just isn't any means for law enforcement to verify it.....it being not mentally ill. The tick box is on the honor system. This is how people like the killer in this case often get guns. They lie.

Ya, I know, it is a bad idea.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by Dead Man

theres "record guns sales" reported by the media every year since before the 2008 election... also happens to be states have been passing legislation to require private and gun show transfers during that period, which means all those used guns that changed hands over and over with no reporting are now being reported for the first time ever, yet ive never seen a distinction made between new gun sales and used gun transfers.

im not a gun nut, but ive purchased probably 50+ firearms in my life, half of those without a 4473 - ALL of those since background checks were required in my state. ive also sold about the same number of guns. one dude, buying, then selling, used guns.. so theres probably 100ish 4473s out there im personally responsible for over the last 20 years. the number of NEW guns all those 4473s represent? maybe 10. i dont buy new stuff if theres perfectly good used stuff available - guns, bikes, clothes, climbing gear, skis, cars, etc

but, eh, this dude was 62 and lives in the south.... is there reason to believe he didnt acquire the gun he used 40 years ago? what good would legislation do in that situation? there are more guns than people in this country, folks... we're swimming in guns. write all the laws ye want, gun violence isnt something you can solve over night, or over decade, or probably even over century, in this country.

And the gun isn't the problem..it's the individual. That keeps getting lost in all the uproar all the time.

[fbhidy]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

Ya, I know, it is a bad idea.

Just to follow up on this part of the thread:

Mental illness by itself is not a predictor of firearm violence towards others.

Persons with mental illness account for a very small portion of gun violence (Steadman, Monahan, Pinals, Vesselinov, & Robbins, 2015) (Baumann & Teasdale, 2018).
Where there is gun violence, persons with serious mental illness are significantly more likely to be the victims of violence than to perpetrate it (Insel, 2011) (Baumann & Teasdale, 2018).

Individuals who have a serious mental illness and who do go on to commit gun violence typically often do so at the time of their first episode of psychosis—before they are likely to encounter a mental health professional or have a preexisting record of mental health concerns (Swanson, 2012).

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

And the gun isn't the problem..it's the individual. That keeps getting lost in all the uproar all the time.

Really? Its getting lost? Its all i ever seem to hear when theres is talk about gun control in us.

perhaps it should not be left to the individuals at all knowing that there will be casualties when its down to the individual.

[PQJ]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

And the gun isn't the problem..it's the individual. That keeps getting lost in all the uproar all the time.

Maybe America has a problem with both guns and people???

[Dead Man]

america has a problem with ****ty people reproducing more ****ty people.

THIS is the problem nobody is talking about.

i have to pass a background check of at least some variety and wait for permission from the government to buy a gun, start a business, serve food or drinks for a paycheck, drive a car, board a plane, captain a sailboat, leave or enter the country, etcetcetcetc but its totally fine to pop out a bunch of crappy human beings and not raise them and have them sucking up massive resources for their entire lives via public assistance, criminal justice, addiction/medical/mental health use.

vasectomies at birth, gents.

yes, it sounds absolutely absurd at first... but once you actually think about it for a few minutes, and think about what this country could look like in just one and a half generations - no more unwanted/accidental/teen pregnancies producing basically ALL of the criminals, non-producers, mentally unsound and physically unhealthy, impoverished resource-soakers...

you wouldnt even have to do anything crazy with it - no background checks required. the only two requirements/steps needed to absolutely revolutionize society would be 1) you have to be an adult, and 2) you have to make a phone call to your doctor to schedule getting your vas deferens reattached.

thats all it would take... no more accidental and drastically-more-likely-to-be-****ty people.

gun control? unnecessary, non-issue.

[PQJ]

Originally Posted by Dead Man

america has a problem with ****ty people reproducing more ****ty people.

Dude - I'm not sure the good / bad person --> good / bad person equation is that linear. I'll leave it at that so as not to further derail this discussion.

/in before lock; out before blood boils; peace & love to all

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by ripvanrando

Unpopular opinion here but if someone is on mind altering medicine such as an SSRI, this information should be available to the FBI's NICs system and the person should not have a gun, for their own safety mostly. Similar with drug offenses. Or dishonorable military discharges. It is all a hodgepodge state by state. I accept my view is not the norm.

I am unaware of any state that allows the sale of a firearm in any manner other than face to face. For instance, if a seller in PA wants to sell me a firearm, I can't buy it off them in person nor can they ship it to me (federal felony crime). The seller has to go to a FFL (licensed firearm dealer) to transfer it to me with the aforementioned form and then the call to FBI for the NICs check. Common misconception that people legally buy guns over the internet or that people sell guns at gun shows without NICs checks. Criminals do those types of illegal transactions.

It would be interesting to me to know how this wack job got a firearm and how he kept it given the reports of his behaviour.

28 states allow private, face to face sale of guns without any background check.

[vespasianus]

Sad that a cyclist was shot to death in SC. But in SC, there have been multiple incidences of people getting hit while legally and properly riding their bicycle and nobody is charged with anything.

Riding a bicycle here in SC is a dangerous game.

[gasman]

I think we are well past the point of the original story. If there is information about what was the motivation/causation for the shooting then I hope that is posted.