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  #1  
Old 06-21-2018, 04:46 PM
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cgolvin cgolvin is offline
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PSA (and opinions sought): Open UPPER small

I was at first very enthusiastic about this since Small seems a rarity among the few Open's on the market. Then the details…listed as "1X only" because one of the FD mount bolts broke off in the seat tube. But don't worry, "As you can see in the photos, the broken bolt is not even noticeable with a little bit of electrical tape."

I'd expect this from a private seller but not from an Open dealer, and am surprised that Open would even permit this (if they knew). In addition, "brand new fork" sounds suspiciously like "frame was crashed, fork was broken". Geez, not even a 'best offer' option…

At what price would you consider taking a risk on this one (negative numbers accepted)?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Open-...Y/132597882092
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  #2  
Old 06-21-2018, 04:54 PM
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I would opt for a New U.P. instead of a used Upper of dubious history.

The new fork with a damaged frame is certainly a red flag that needs explaining - ask the seller a direct question about it and see if the response is sufficient and believable. Also, electrical tape is brazen remedy suggestion.
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Last edited by sparky33; 06-21-2018 at 04:56 PM.
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  #3  
Old 06-21-2018, 04:56 PM
yinzerniner yinzerniner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgolvin View Post
I was at first very enthusiastic about this since Small seems a rarity among the few Open's on the market. Then the details…listed as "1X only" because one of the FD mount bolts broke off in the seat tube. But don't worry, "As you can see in the photos, the broken bolt is not even noticeable with a little bit of electrical tape."

I'd expect this from a private seller but not from an Open dealer, and am surprised that Open would even permit this (if they knew). In addition, "brand new fork" sounds suspiciously like "frame was crashed, fork was broken". Geez, not even a 'best offer' option…

At what price would you consider taking a risk on this one (negative numbers accepted)?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Open-...Y/132597882092
Wouldn't touch that with a 500,000 yard pole, even if it was 1/2 the price. WAY too many red flags, and the "electrical tape" comment is just the cherry on top.

If your budget is really 3K then just get the regular 2018 U.P.
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Old 06-21-2018, 04:59 PM
nalax nalax is offline
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As a rider of small frames, I know that they are hard to find. In this case I would walk away from a bike that had problems in the first week. I would not even care to demo it, there are too many other great options out there.
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  #5  
Old 06-21-2018, 05:11 PM
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cgolvin cgolvin is offline
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Yes, I asked the seller some pointed questions including "was it crashed?".

The $3K asking price is a joke, that's why I was curious to see if anyone would venture an amount at which they'd take a flyer. Certainly I agree that at $3K there are many, many better options including a 2018 U.P.
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Old 06-21-2018, 05:41 PM
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fignon's barber fignon's barber is offline
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Really has zero value to me. It's a broken carbon frame that you can't even use a front derailleur with ( even though the owner says "it's an insane bike"). Plus, there are better options for $3k. You can get a new ultegra equipped Orbea Terra for that.
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  #7  
Old 06-21-2018, 06:00 PM
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R3awak3n R3awak3n is offline
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I would just get a normal OPEN. You can get them for about $2800 if you shop right. You get a color which is MUCH cooler than the boring flat black and you get a warranty. Also, I have heard it mention a few times of the UPPER having some problems... even under small riders.

I have an OPEN on the way, blue one, I think its going to be an incredible bike and I saw some used ones but even used they go for more money than I would feel confortable spending on an used carbon bike
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Old 06-21-2018, 06:00 PM
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whaaa hahaha,

$3000 buck-a-roonies for a frame that has this "feature".



no way.

also, according to some folks in the know, the UPPERs are more prone to failure than the UPs are. buying one already a little broken with no warranty protection would be crazy, at almost any price.

i dont have the energy, but someone should really send a copy of this ad to OPEN. if this was, in fact returned as a warranty claim, and it somehow made it out the back door and some asshat is trying to sell it, i'm sure they would want to know.

to get to the original question, if i wanted a frame of this sort, and it was offered at around $600 or so, i might take a winger on it, and maybe send it to ruckus or someone to repair that FD area, and beef it up and carry on. but that's a big maybe...
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Old 06-21-2018, 06:05 PM
velotrack velotrack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryScientist View Post
to get to the original question, if i wanted a frame of this sort, and it was offered at around $600 or so, i might take a winger on it, and maybe send it to ruckus or someone to repair that FD area, and beef it up and carry on. but that's a big maybe...
that's probably my take too.
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  #10  
Old 06-21-2018, 06:37 PM
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cgolvin cgolvin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryScientist View Post
i dont have the energy, but someone should really send a copy of this ad to OPEN. if this was, in fact returned as a warranty claim, and it somehow made it out the back door and some asshat is trying to sell it, i'm sure they would want to know.
Great minds, Angry -- I already did that.
And it's not some asshat out the back door, they're at the front door — I contacted the shop and, if I correctly decipher their answer…
  • The frame was warrantied and replaced by Open (_only_ the frame).
  • After trying to remove the sheared bolt themselves, the shop sent the frame to a carbon repair shop who also wasn't able to get it out.
  • The shop ordered a new fork, thru axles, etc. and opted to sell is as "1X only".
  • "It is still under warranty for everything aside from the front derailleur bolt"
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  #11  
Old 06-21-2018, 06:46 PM
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AngryScientist AngryScientist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgolvin View Post
The frame was warrantied and replaced by Open (_only_ the frame).
wow, that is brazen. i would be surprised if OPEN does not take swift action on this one, up to and including pulling dealer status from this shop.

if they replaced the frame as a warranty item, it was almost certainly the instructions to the shop to destroy the old frame.

the shop is effectively trying to make pure profit on this one and literally selling the same frame twice.

bad news, curious if OPEN will get back to you...
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  #12  
Old 06-22-2018, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryScientist View Post
curious if OPEN will get back to you...
I got a response from OPEN this morning, saying they're indeed aware of this and has no problem with it:

"… Its really shame to throw away a frame that works perfectly for 80% of our customers that ride single front ring…"

Given the going price for a brand new U.P. (depending on newer or older model) is only a few hundred away from this asking price, will be interesting to see the outcome.
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  #13  
Old 06-22-2018, 10:47 AM
jtakeda jtakeda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgolvin View Post
I got a response from OPEN this morning, saying they're indeed aware of this and has no problem with it:

"… Its really shame to throw away a frame that works perfectly for 80% of our customers that ride single front ring…"

Given the going price for a brand new U.P. (depending on newer or older model) is only a few hundred away from this asking price, will be interesting to see the outcome.
So if they’re ok with someone riding that why don’t they back it with a full warranty....
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  #14  
Old 06-22-2018, 10:50 AM
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R3awak3n R3awak3n is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtakeda View Post
So if they’re ok with someone riding that why don’t they back it with a full warranty....
Seems like it has full warranty appart from the FD hanger as in, you can claim the warranty for the derailleur hanger when you decide you want to use the superior 2x system.

I dont see any problem with this... the frame is fine for 2x. If you won't use 2x and want an UPPER save a few bucks, if not, get the UP for less
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  #15  
Old 06-22-2018, 11:03 AM
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cgolvin cgolvin is offline
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Originally Posted by R3awak3n View Post
Seems like it has full warranty appart from the FD hanger as in, you can claim the warranty for the derailleur hanger when you decide you want to use the superior 2x system.
I don't think that's right, the dealer said that the warranty remains but excludes the FD mount. I just asked Andy at OPEN to confirm the warranty is intact and to clarify what would happen in the case of damage, especially to the seat tube.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3awak3n View Post
I dont see any problem with this... the frame is fine for 2x. If you won't use 2x and want an UPPER save a few bucks, if not, get the UP for less
I'm assuming that the above is a typo and you meant "the frame is fine for 1X" but if not then I don't understand your meaning.
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