Long climb sitting + standing

[Fixed]

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/fit...ind-an-answer/

https://www.active.com/cycling/artic...-riding-uphill
https://joefrielsblog.com/hills-sit-or-stand/
Hills: Sit or Stand?

August 7, 2010 by Joe Friel

I was asked in a tweet last
week if a rider should sit or stand when climbing a hill on a bike. I wish I
could give a one-word answer, but that isn’t possible. As I’ve said so many
times here in responding to reader questions, my answer must often start with
“it depends.” This one is no difference. Here’s what this answer depends on…

Steepness.
Low gradient hills are usually done seated. Steep hills often demand at least
some standing. And the steeper the hill is, the more likely you are to stand
up. When standing on a steep hill your body weight takes some of load off of
the leg muscles. On the other hand, it tends to stress the aerobic system more.
As a result you’ll probably breathe harder and have a higher heart rate when
standing. But the steeper the hill is the less difference there will be when it
comes to muscular- (seated) vs aerobic- (standing) system stress.

Hill length.
The shorter the hill, the more advantage you will have by getting out of the
saddle. You’ll create more power (again, because of adding body weight to the
pedals) and get over it quicker.

Type of event. On low-gradient hills a triathlete or time trialist is less likely to
get out of the saddle than a road racer. This is primarily due to the variably
paced nature of road racing (as opposed to the steady-state riding of
triathletes and TTers). If another member of the group is accelerating up the
hill, you are often forced to accelerate to keep pace, or risk being dropped. A
quick acceleration on a hill usually requires standing.

Body mass.
The lower your body mass the more advantageous it is to stand on a climb. The
greater your mass the better off you’ll be staying seated. One quick and simple
way to come up with your body mass is to divide your weight in pounds (1kg =
2.2lbs) by your height in inches (1cm = 0.4in). So if you weigh 154 pounds
(70kg) and you are 72 inches (180cm) tall your “mass” is 2.13 (154 / 72 =
2.13). I’ve found that for males the best climbers are at less than 2.0. These
folks should stand a lot (think of Marco Pantani). Men in the range of 2.0 to
2.3 tend to alternate between standing and sitting a lot (for example, Lance
Armstrong). Those men at 2.3 to 2.5 are best advised to sit a lot (like Miguel
Indurain). Folks over 2.5 usually avoid hills. Women should use a scale which
is about 0.2 lbs/in less (for example, under 1.8 are climbers).

So losing (or gaining)
weight may change how you climb – and how well you climb. For example, a 1kg
(2.2 lbs) loss of weight (bike and/or body) allows you to climb a 1000m hill
with a 10% grade about 3.5 sec faster than when heavier at the same power
output. Another way of looking at this is that 1kg is about 3w on a climb (so
1lb is roughly 1.5w).

Speed. At
about 12mph (20kph) or faster staying seated and in an aero position if in a
time trial or triathlon is usually a good idea. If your speed is less than
12mph then sitting up or standing is often better. This is affected, however,
by the wind. A headwind essentially reduces your actual speed. So even if your
speedometer says you are at 15mph (25kph) but there is a strong headwind then
you are better off seated and even aero. While you may be more powerful above
12mph bike-wind speed when sitting up, your speed return on energy investment
is not favorable due to headwind drag.

Fatigue.
On long climbs, especially those late in the race, there may be some advantage
to alternating standing and sitting to relieve muscle fatigue. Even if all of
the other considerations listed here indicate you should stay seated, but the
muscles you use to drive the pedals when seated are wasted, you may need to
stand simply to give them a break.

Gearing.
This is related to steepness. If you are on a hill but your gearing is so high
that cadence bogs down you will need to stand in order to keep the gears
ticking over.

Mountain bike. Standing causes the back wheel to lose traction when riding off-road
on a steep hill on loose gravel or wet roots. So staying in the saddle is
recommended for such climbs on a mountain bike. Pedaling while seated produces
more even tension on the chain throughout the stroke and helps to prevent wheel
slippage.

The good news here is that
you can basically trust your instincts on hills in races. In most of the above
situations your body will tell you when you need to stand or sit. It’s really
not a great mystery – unless you overthink it. In this case, experience is the
best teacher.

Training should involve both
sitting and standing. Sitting will help to build greater muscular force for
riding on flat terrain. It’s a bit like doing squats. Standing may boost your
aerobic capacity, especially when the hill takes only two to three minutes to
climb.

9On the longer climbs (Hawk hill ) around here I sit stand about 50 50
I am light 5’11” 145 (but old)that‘s just the way I ride And I do not ride in a group Standing up can cause problems sometimes in groups imho)
Cheers

[ultraman6970]

Well you forgot something... some of us walk the climbs

[sg8357]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

Well you forgot something... some of us walk the climbs

That would be your 24 inch gear.

[tuxbailey]

Today I learned.

I’ve found that for males the best climbers are at less than 2.0. These
folks should stand a lot (think of Marco Pantani). Men in the range of 2.0 to
2.3 tend to alternate between standing and sitting a lot (for example, Lance
Armstrong). Those men at 2.3 to 2.5 are best advised to sit a lot (like Miguel
Indurain). Folks over 2.5 usually avoid hills.

[truth]

Originally Posted by Fixed

Folks over 2.5 usually avoid hills.

Is this bit a joke?

[haruharu]

Even with a ratio of 2.6 I still find getting out of the saddle gives myself a chance to breathe and reset midway through a climb. Once I feel the fatigue set in out of saddle, I hunker down into my saddle, gear down and spin. Rinse and repeat

[Johnnysmooth]

Before I was diagnosed and hemotocrit dropped to ~32 I was a good climber.

All the points outlined here by OP are basically ones I picked up on intuitively - just listening to my body, which is almost always your best teacher until you have to yell "Shut-up and ride!" at your legs towards end of ride/race...

[jkbrwn]

Originally Posted by haruharu

Even with a ratio of 2.6 I still find getting out of the saddle gives myself a chance to breathe and reset midway through a climb. Once I feel the fatigue set in out of saddle, I hunker down into my saddle, gear down and spin. Rinse and repeat

This. Thread over. For me anyway!

[Toddykins]

I am still confused how hawk hill qualifies as long...

[dem]

Yes, a "long" climb to me is more like 30 or 40 minutes.

I think this debate was more lively in ancient times of 2010, before cheap and easily accessible lower gearing was available.

Hills mean nothing with appropriate gearing. Ride them like you ride anything else.

[Fixed]

Originally Posted by Toddykins

I am still confused how hawk hill qualifies as long...

I am from Florida 65 a t.b.i. Survivor And just got back on the bike after nine years of of therapy A couple of months ago but does seem to be getting shorter lately
Cheers

[AngryScientist]

i do alternate when climbing, often. i play games in my mind. stand until that rock up there, sit for a few more meters...etc. whatever keeps the pedals turning.

the exception is on loose gravel climbs, where you have to pick the moments where you are able to stand carefully to avoid losing rear wheel traction.

[Toddykins]

Originally Posted by Fixed

I am from Florida 65 a t.b.i. Survivor And just got back on the bike after nine years of of therapy A couple of months ago but does seem to be getting shorter lately
Cheers

Just a bit of cheek - Keep at it Fixed, glad you are getting back out!

[marciero]

Legs tired-stand and work the aerobic/cardio-vascular. Cardio tired, sit and work legs a bit. Or sit and spin and work both. Choices!

[Fixed]

If you ever see an old skinny guy with a ponytail swinging his bike back + forth cause he in too big a gear and saying good morning to everyone Stay clear
I should have jersey that says caution t.b.i. Survivor stay ten feet away
cheers