OT - What's going on in France

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

Germany did vote to take all German Nukes offline after Fukushima. They took half offline pre-2014 and the rest slated for 2022.

Sharp increase in renewables have offset alot of the increase coal/oil/gas consumption. I think the 'data' is correct, and they have not yet taken any of the remaining nukes off line.

Nice attempt to throw a wrench. German per capita has increased by a little, which is mostly attributed to transportation.

Biggest gross contributors have been China, USA and India. On a per capita however, China and India still small.

From everything I've read, one cannot meaningfully reduce CO2 emissions for baseload power without a big contribution from nuclear. That said, most nuclear plants in the world are based on 50 year old technology and designs.

New designs, especially as it relates to smaller reactors are both much safer and also cheaper than previous generations.

Renewables are great, but if you're serious about CO2 emissions, you need to have a second look at nuclear as a part of the energy mix.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

From everything I've read, one cannot meaningfully reduce CO2 emissions for baseload power without a big contribution from nuclear. That said, most nuclear plants in the world are based on 50 year old technology and designs.



New designs, especially as it relates to smaller reactors are both much safer and also cheaper than previous generations.



Renewables are great, but if you're serious about CO2 emissions, you need to have a second look at nuclear as a part of the energy mix.

Let's face it, we are going to have to live with CO2 generated global warming. CO2 emissions were the highest they've been this past year in spite of all attempts at reduction!

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

...an idea for how we solve the inequities of capitalism while keeping some of its benefits, adding some elements of a social safety net, while not screwing the planet and its climate, while not sinking into unmanageable debt...

Is there an answer without political cant? It's a serious question. It's such a complex web of issues. Has someone found solutions without grinding axes?

the problem is a concentration of wealth into the hands of the few....the obvious answer is estate taxes to redistribute the wealth...how it is redistributed is another question. I'd be a proponent of reducing national debt and funding programs that create jobs and education, rather than just handouts.

However, since the rich make the "rules"....nothing is likely to change. And, money will be moved globally to avoid the local taxes...

Interesting and sad problem....

[froze]

Last I checked, this was before the gasoline tax was hiked, that France has the second highest taxes per citizen than any country in the Eurozone. Now with the gasoline tax hike I'm not sure if they're number 1 now or still number 2. High taxes have a way of pissing off people, and most of France's taxes is due to social welfare programs; there is a cost to all this socialized crap that goes on due to liberal policies, something people in the US simply do not and will not understand...but someday will when your income is swallowed by taxes.

[jemoryl]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

From everything I've read, one cannot meaningfully reduce CO2 emissions for baseload power without a big contribution from nuclear. That said, most nuclear plants in the world are based on 50 year old technology and designs.

New designs, especially as it relates to smaller reactors are both much safer and also cheaper than previous generations.

Renewables are great, but if you're serious about CO2 emissions, you need to have a second look at nuclear as a part of the energy mix.

Yeah, especially since the problem of nuclear waste disposal has been solved.

[jemoryl]

Originally Posted by Ozz

......However, since the rich make the "rules"....nothing is likely to change. And, money will be moved globally to avoid the local taxes...

Interesting and sad problem....

At least for the time being. Isn't this part of the anti-Macron wave in France?

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by jemoryl

At least for the time being. Isn't this part of the anti-Macron wave in France?

1789 all over again?

Arise, children of the Fatherland,
The day of glory has arrived!
Against us, tyranny's
Bloody standard is raised,
Do you hear, in the countryside,
The roar of those ferocious soldiers?
They're coming right into your arms
To cut the throats of your sons, your women!

To arms, citizens,
Form your battalions,
Let's march, let's march!
Let an impure blood
Water our furrows!...

Time to storm the Bastille?

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by jemoryl

Yeah, especially since the problem of nuclear waste disposal has been solved.

That and the high consequences of an accident and huge cost of the plants pretty much dooms fission nuclear power in the US.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by jemoryl

At least for the time being. Isn't this part of the anti-Macron wave in France?

Yes, the days of feudalism and robber barons are coming back or are back and we have yet to realize it. The vast majority of wealth can only be concentrated with the vast minority of people before things start to get "interesting".

[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Yeah well Germany shut down their nuclear plants and put up coal ones, so this data wrt Germany is no longer valid.

Changes in policy don't invalidate data that has already been collected and verified. As well, Germany was shutting down nuclear in 2011, three years prior to the last data point shown in the link.

If you have more up-to-date CO2 per capita numbers by all means share them please.

Additionally, German use of natural gas, hard coal, lignite and nuclear are all being reduced and have been reducing year after year since 2013, one year prior to those 2014 numbers. This shows info up to and including 2017

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/fact...xit-commission

In France, it appears that Macron has cancelled the apparent gas tax, so the protest has had results I guess

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...esident-macron

It's always important to remember that change doesn't happen overnight and there will be ups and downs along the way, but portraying Germany as an example of failure, hypocrisy or unwilling to advance their policy to meet climate targets is unfair. It's not going to be lions hugging lambs overnight, but rest assured the German government, as do the vast majority of the members in the EU, remain committed and are quite rightfully seen as leaders in not just the conversation, but more importantly in actions.

Lastly, I think every one of us can take a little pride each time we throw a leg over a bicycle, as little or much as we can, in terms of doing one ride's more part in the whole equation, not just for our own health but our community

[redir]

Well if ya give tax breaks to the rich you gotta get that money back somehow. Here in the US they will accomplish that by taking your SS away. People catch on eventually.

Ahh 1789 what a year.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by redir

Well if ya give tax breaks to the rich you gotta get that money back somehow. Here in the US they will accomplish that by taking your SS away. People catch on eventually.

Ahh 1789 what a year.

I guess that in France people are more aware of this and in the US there is a lot of money from the likes of the Koch brothers that works hard to convince people that they are better off when rich people and corporations pay no taxes and most people get no services or to at least distract them from what is going on.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

I guess that in France people are more aware of this and in the US there is a lot of money from the likes of the Koch brothers that works hard to convince people that they are better off when rich people and corporations pay no taxes and most people get no services or to at least distract them from what is going on.

Well, who do you think provides the jobs? Tax corporations more than the rest of the world does, and they'll move out of the country!


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[jemoryl]

Originally Posted by Ozz

1789 all over again?

Arise, children of the Fatherland,
The day of glory has arrived!
Against us, tyranny's
Bloody standard is raised,
Do you hear, in the countryside,
The roar of those ferocious soldiers?
They're coming right into your arms
To cut the throats of your sons, your women!

To arms, citizens,
Form your battalions,
Let's march, let's march!
Let an impure blood
Water our furrows!...

Time to storm the Bastille?

The fuel tax appears to be the last straw: here is an interesting thread listing the changes the GJ's are wishing for:
https://twitter.com/dovesandletters/...05328753655808

I applaud the French for being so attuned to the problems of neoliberalism. A good question is: why did Macron get elected in the first place?

[Mzilliox]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Well, who do you think provides the jobs? Tax corporations more than the rest of the world does, and they'll move out of the country!


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who provides the jobs? cmon with tat crap. we provide jobs for ourselves. entrepreneurs provide jobs, necessity provides jobs. Multiglobalist corporations provide something like a job, something like slavery, and something like a good waste of time should you have nothing better to guide your life. But sure, lets go with the well they provide jobs, so lets let corporations do whatever the hell they want.

Jobs, there's always jobs, why are jobs the catch phrase, one can always garden, farm and subsist, this is work, this is job, this is life.

Jobs, im so damn tired of jobs as the end all for humanity. Is this the best we got? Jobs? seriously? not happiness, health, nature, clean water, just jobs.

no wonder the world is so weird.