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  #16  
Old 10-13-2020, 11:00 PM
giordana93 giordana93 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
Appreciate the input.

I bought the cranks on a whim. I'm still making changes with the fitter but if all else fails I guess this will be something that will be tried out as well. Long and short of it is that the saddle came down and forward. My cleats were more or less set up right, though I've made some micro adjustments to that. I have a pretty collapsed arch on my right foot so have some arch support and shims so the system doesn't collapse inward on the downstroke, but I have a bit of a wobble at the top of the stroke that has been a bit hard to dial out. This increase in knee pain just ended up popping up as an issue after I started this thread, though it's an old issue that only pops up on the bike.

The knee interference issues makes it difficult to use the drops, which is semi-serious in faster scenarios and for more control when riding.
ok, so first, this is internet bike fit, so worth every penny you're paying....

don't know the nature of your knee pain, but unless you had a "pre-existing condition" of pain in the back of your knee (that might be caused by a saddle that is too high/too far back) then lowering AND moving the saddle forward are a good way to put more stress on that joint, especially if the fit was not to address already existing pain, but rather in search of more power / speed. that lower seat does indeed make the knee angle more acute.

I'm not against shorter cranks at all. on the contrary I ride/rode 165s for ages (saddle height around 70-71cm). just don't treat it as a silver bullet. I would re-trace the changes that aggravated your knee in the first place--and maybe do the old fashioned thing of rest and anti-inflammatories, especially now that weather is turning cold and that's not good for cranky old knees (keep them covered below 60!)
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  #17  
Old 10-14-2020, 12:15 PM
ridethecliche ridethecliche is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giordana93 View Post
ok, so first, this is internet bike fit, so worth every penny you're paying....

don't know the nature of your knee pain, but unless you had a "pre-existing condition" of pain in the back of your knee (that might be caused by a saddle that is too high/too far back) then lowering AND moving the saddle forward are a good way to put more stress on that joint, especially if the fit was not to address already existing pain, but rather in search of more power / speed. that lower seat does indeed make the knee angle more acute.

I'm not against shorter cranks at all. on the contrary I ride/rode 165s for ages (saddle height around 70-71cm). just don't treat it as a silver bullet. I would re-trace the changes that aggravated your knee in the first place--and maybe do the old fashioned thing of rest and anti-inflammatories, especially now that weather is turning cold and that's not good for cranky old knees (keep them covered below 60!)
Heh, my saddle height to the center of the saddle is more like 76cm.

My issue back in the day was 'chondromalacia' and 'patello-femolar syndrome'. Couldn't ever quite figure out why. Did PT etc but issues on the bike persisted and I stopped riding. Started lifting weights after that including going pretty heavy for me (deadlifts @315, squats in the 205 range) at the weight of like 155-160. Knees never bothered me but old back issues crept up again.

Most of my rides recently have been indoors. I actually wear knee warmers if it's below 60-65 for the exact reason you mention. I've been off the bike now since friday and have been stretching more and taking ibuprofen. Things seem to be calmer for now so I'll probably try the trainer again and see how things feel.
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  #18  
Old 10-14-2020, 02:20 PM
giordana93 giordana93 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
'chondromalacia' and 'patello-femolar
that condition is exacerbated by a lower, more forward seat, and pushing big gears/hills. remember the mantra: pedal faster, not harder (= spin, spin, spin)
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  #19  
Old 10-15-2020, 07:48 PM
ridethecliche ridethecliche is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giordana93 View Post
that condition is exacerbated by a lower, more forward seat, and pushing big gears/hills. remember the mantra: pedal faster, not harder (= spin, spin, spin)
That's definitely not why I had the issue in the past years ago. Per the fitter now, my saddle was high and back when we started. He had wanted to go further down and forward but it was too much change at once and I hated it so we were working on it slowly. I do wish I could get my cleats back a little further... not quite midfoot, but maybe 1-2cm behind where they are now.

But who knows, you may be right. I certainly don't know why this is happening now. I do need to work on my cadence, but I usually settle into the 80-90 range. Being conscious to make that more like 90-100 as my fitness improves!

In any event, I'm working overnight tonight but managed to get an appointment with sports med tomorrow afternoon. My hope for the visit is to leave with a decent eval and referral to good PT to help figure out what's going on and work on tightness etc.

I rode at and easy/med intensity for an hour and a half on the trainer this morning after taking almost a full week off.

Last edited by ridethecliche; 10-15-2020 at 07:50 PM.
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  #20  
Old 10-17-2020, 10:02 AM
John H. John H. is offline
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Short Cranks

I think the short cranks will likely help the issues that you are describing.
Assuming you have been watching these videos?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuu4Ra0OeiM

A friend of mine who has been having some hip issues switched to 165mm cranks based on this video.
He bought a Quarq Dzero- So he could go back to his normal crank length if he didn't like the change.
He put the new cranks on- raised his saddle 3mm, moved his cleats back a bit- Hopped on the bike and said "everything feels right".
Said he feels like he sits square in the saddle, can put power down properly without moving around, and his reach out to the bars feels natural.
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  #21  
Old 10-18-2020, 10:41 PM
ridethecliche ridethecliche is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by John H. View Post
I think the short cranks will likely help the issues that you are describing.
Assuming you have been watching these videos?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuu4Ra0OeiM

A friend of mine who has been having some hip issues switched to 165mm cranks based on this video.
He bought a Quarq Dzero- So he could go back to his normal crank length if he didn't like the change.
He put the new cranks on- raised his saddle 3mm, moved his cleats back a bit- Hopped on the bike and said "everything feels right".
Said he feels like he sits square in the saddle, can put power down properly without moving around, and his reach out to the bars feels natural.
Yeah his videos are great, but mostly this started with me wondering if slightly shorter cranks would help me get more drop just by virtue of not constantly kneeing myself. But he's not super short and the cranks helps his tight hips etc. That's about the only thing that I've never tried so I guess I'm hopeful?

I just got the cranks and I'm semi hoping not to have to use them but am the things that have so far helped me feel better have involved shortening the radius of the stroke ie moving cleats back etc. Shorter cranks would do that all well.

I feel like the knee bend at the top of the stroke causes the wobble that bothers me for now. I felt pretty good today after moving the saddle forward 5mm and up 5-10mm. I'll cross my fingers for now. If I can get some assiomas or something I'd be more willing to try the shorter cranks.

I'm trying to sell some snowboard gear. If I can sell some of that and my second crank arm pm I should be able to get the pedals. Not hard to swap between pedals at all.
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