OT: VW cheating emissions on TDI vehicles

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Buy back? Doubt it. For the others, sure, go talk to a lawyer, but it won't make any difference. One TDI owner won't get any more whatever than any other. The hard part is 'proving' damages. Being pissed off isn't pain and suffering in the eyes of the law. I think some over-estimate the 'power' a single TDI owner may have. It's not like internal bleeding from Pradaxa or mesothelioma from asbestos.

Well, the 'damages' would be easy to prove, in the cases of states that refuse to grant inspection stickers for vehicles that won't pass emission standards. These cars would be rendered unusable, and their only value would be as salvage. But I doubt that would happen - VW will either fix them sufficiently to pass inspection and/or make some kind of deal with the state. But, if the fix reduces power or economy, that would lower the potential resale value of the vehicle, so there is room for 'damages' to be assessed based on loss of value.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Well, the 'damages' would be easy to prove, in the cases of states that refuse to grant inspection stickers for vehicles that won't pass emission standards. These cars would be rendered unusable, and their only value would be as salvage. But I doubt that would happen - VW will either fix them sufficiently to pass inspection and/or make some kind of deal with the state. But, if the fix reduces power or economy, that would lower the potential resale value of the vehicle, so there is room for 'damages' to be assessed based on loss of value.

Mine passes inspection now. As for 'loss of resale value', pretty tough to prove a hypothetical, 'potential', but go get a lawyer, have at it. I'm sure the attorneys would eat it up, they'll get paid regardless.

[xjahx]

Originally Posted by bcroslin

"Michael Horn, the automakersｴ top official in the United States"

Did I miss something?

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/24/h...iesel-scandal/

Yes, the top three+ are no longer with us.

OldPotatoe, wrongful death from Pradaxa is worth up to 5-10million/incident. Apples to oranges in regard to damages for each consumer, but payout they shall nonetheless.

[grawk]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Mine passes inspection now. As for 'loss of resale value', pretty tough to prove a hypothetical, 'potential', but go get a lawyer, have at it. I'm sure the attorneys would eat it up, they'll get paid regardless.

That kind of lawsuit would be on contingency.

[yngpunk]

Originally Posted by xjahx

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/24/h...iesel-scandal/

Yes, the top three+ are no longer with us.

OldPotatoe, wrongful death from Pradaxa is worth up to 5-10million/incident. Apples to oranges in regard to damages for each consumer, but payout they shall nonetheless.

That Autoblog article is dated 9/24 and cites "reports". Michael Horn was testifying before Congress today...as stupid as VW may be, I doubt they would have Horn testify if he was on his way out. Besides, I got a letter from him yesterday where he expresses is deepest apologies...

[palincss]

Originally Posted by denapista

Has anyone watched that youtube video where a group of guys tested the TDI cars on a 4 wheel dyno to trick it like it was on the road? They also used the same dyno in 2 wheel mode to see the differences in HP/TQ. It was something like a 30 ft/lb torque loss and like 13hp when the car was in "Inspection Mode". So if VW repairs the cars, expect to lose lots of power. Nothing that an aftermarket chip from APR wouldn't fix though.

Take their testing practices with a grain of salt. Pretty sure VW engineers are smarter than that... I would hope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhvI2oeBPtY

If you read the comments on the youtube site you'll see their effort is completely discredited. They didn't put the car into "test mode" at all, what they did was trigger a bunch of faults and the car went into some kind of limp mode.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Mine passes inspection now. As for 'loss of resale value', pretty tough to prove a hypothetical, 'potential', but go get a lawyer, have at it. I'm sure the attorneys would eat it up, they'll get paid regardless.

You mean that yours passed emissions the last time it was tested. In light of the 'cheating' scandal, it is likely that many states will revise their testing procedures (or simply not pass certain makes/models that are known to cheat on tests if they have not been updated). Your car might not pass so easily the next time around.

The value of a car is determined by many things, but at least part of the determination is based on performance and economy. Regardless of the reason, any car that has had its performance/economy downgraded will lose value. If Volkswagen's fix downgrades the performance/economy of the vehicles, they will certainly lose value. And an argument can be made that Volkswagen should be made accountable for the loss of value that their modification produced.

[palincss]

Originally Posted by xjahx

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/24/h...iesel-scandal/

Yes, the top three+ are no longer with us.

OldPotatoe, wrongful death from Pradaxa is worth up to 5-10million/incident. Apples to oranges in regard to damages for each consumer, but payout they shall nonetheless.

You're not keeping up. Horn was to be fired, but due to support from the American dealer community, was not fired. If he had been, how could he say -- as he did today in his testimony -- " My name is Michael Horn, and I am the President and CEO of Volkswagen Group of America, a subsidiary of Volkswagen AG, headquartered in Wolfsburg, Germany" ?

[rnhood]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Y

The value of a car is determined by many things, but at least part of the determination is based on performance and economy. Regardless of the reason, any car that has had its performance/economy downgraded will lose value. If Volkswagen's fix downgrades the performance/economy of the vehicles, they will certainly lose value. And an argument can be made that Volkswagen should be made accountable for the loss of value that their modification produced.

I doubt seriously there is much difference in value between a TDI with, let's say 200k miles (so it still has a good bit of life left) if the crises had not occurred, and as it would be next year with 200k miles. No car is worth much once they get 200k+ miles on them. You buy a car because of other attributes, not speculated depreciation.

Some people here have commented that consumers will be the losers. Well the ones that purchased theirs for the long haul will not likely be the losers.

[OtayBW]

So, just to return to a touchstone after 52 pages, am I correct in assuming that VW TDI vehicles are no longer the official vehicle of Paceliners everywhere? ................

[ultraman6970]

IMO people with 5 year old cars are the ones that are more damaged because a 10 years old car is pretty much ready to be swapped... the ones that bought a car last year or right a few months ago must be pissed...

What are they going to do?? Offer to buy the cars back for credit so everybody gets a brand spanking car or something????

Originally Posted by rnhood

I doubt seriously there is much difference in value between a TDI with, let's say 200k miles (so it still has a good bit of life left) if the crises had not occurred, and as it would be next year with 200k miles. No car is worth much once they get 200k+ miles on them. You buy a car because of other attributes, not speculated depreciation.

Some people here have commented that consumers will be the losers. Well the ones that purchased theirs for the long haul will not likely be the losers.

[shovelhd]

What I got from Michael Horn's testimony.

My 2014 is going to require an Adblue retrofit.
This retrofit is going to take a while, maybe more than a year.
It is going to negatively affect performance and fuel mileage.
My operating costs are going to go up.

That said I have two choices. With 2K miles left before the bumper to bumper warranty runs out, now is the time to work with VWoA and my dealer to talk about a realistic, above water trade for a GSW SE. I am going to start that process tomorrow. My other choice is to stick to my original plan of owning it for 8-10 years, getting the refit done and hoping that VW extends the emissions warranty past 200K miles, because that's what it is going to take. Tunes and deletes are not on my radar screen as long as I live in a CARB state.

[akelman]

Here's what I got from Michael Horn today: nothing. His testimony was just the opening salvo in what promises to be a long PR and legal battle. I remain hopeful that top VW officials will go to prison, that the company will be forced to buy back my car (because what I've long suspected to be the case is now almost certainly true: the TDI cannot perform as promised), and that I'll never do business with VW again. Having said that, I still have no idea what actually is going to happen, and neither, including Michael Horn, does anybody else. Today was kabuki. Or maybe theater of the absurd.

[pbarry]

Now we know why the smaller TDI cars were not offered in an AWD variant..

[xjahx]

Originally Posted by palincss

You're not keeping up. Horn was to be fired, but due to support from the American dealer community, was not fired. If he had been, how could he say -- as he did today in his testimony -- " My name is Michael Horn, and I am the President and CEO of Volkswagen Group of America, a subsidiary of Volkswagen AG, headquartered in Wolfsburg, Germany" ?

Wow, nice work, Horn. Thanks for the clarification! I will be shocked if he is still at the helm in a year.

I agree with Akelman. Executives will end up in prison related to these tactics and behaviors.