To 1x or 2x (Allroad content)....

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by lavi

This is Sram AXS stuff for you? XPLR? And yes, losing the very top end, as you referenced, is ok with me. This is not my go-fast bike...and I either ride solo, or do JRA stuff with a buddy.

No this is info I can use! The cage is easier than getting a new DR. Do you have this? Any feedback on performance? Also, for whatever reason, they only reference this working with a Force dr. Is there a reason for that, or would it be the same with a Red dr?

The garbaruk cage should work with the Red AXS RD since it uses the same outer and inner cage design. Thought I saw that DaveS or another frequent poster at weightweenies had done it

One other benefit of the garbaruk cage vs XPLR is you don’t need to run a flat top chain, so you can experiment with the other 12s cassettes out there like e13, rotor, even Shimano. I have an e13 9-46 on my steel gravel steed and since I don’t intend to go super fast on it the combo works great.

I’ve done a TON of research on the matter and was about to pull the trigger on a full garbaruk setup with the 10-48 cassette but held off. Didn’t like the cassette jumps, and still not sure if 1x will work with the riding I’m intending for a build. So asking if “it works” is totally dependent on your personal pedaling preference. Some people don’t mind 13-15% jumps in the middle of the cassette, others hate it.

The one thing that 2x has over 1x is the flexibility to dial in gearing. And with the orbit and clutch designs as well as 13t front ring jumps you no longer have as many chain drop issues on SRAM which previously really killed the ride.

[HTupolev]

Originally Posted by makoti

If someone goes to 14, gear jumps will not be an issue.

Depends on the required range and the desired spacing, in addition to the type of gearing arrangement. It would take about 17 cogs for a practical 1x to mimic the range and spacing on my gravel bike's 3x8 without notable compromises, and even 2x doesn't really do it comfortably until 13-14 cogs unless the gears are interleaved (i.e. half-step).

[lavi]

Originally Posted by Imaking20

I do realize I'm (apparently) an outlier in never using nor wanting a 1:1 ratio. It'll only slow you down...

You're not so much an outlier as you are fit!

Considering that getting 1:1 ratios, or lower, for road riding...that's a relatively newer thing. I know it's not...but it is. We aren't discussing triples here. A compact 50/34 with an 12-28 used to be considered a super low climbing gear. But ya, on this bike, being it's intended for lots of stuff, having <1:1 would be handy.

Originally Posted by Turkle

I am continually frustrated by the 1x11 gearing on my gravel / all-road bike. If I put on a huge cassette for long climbs, then the gears still aren't close enough at the low end to get a precise cadence going, and the higher road gearing suffers. If I put on a narrower cassette for better road riding, then I am continually wishing I had at least *one* more lower gear for climbing.

1x11 is great, in my opinion, for *actual* gravel (like, super rough stuff where you don't need a precise pedaling cadence and just need to set it and forget it for a while), or for city riding with a lot of stops and starts where you don't want to be fussing with your front derailleur all the time. I actually really like 1x gearing for those scenarios!

But on longer "all-road" rides with both fast pavement and challenging climbs, I definitely think that the 2x is preferable.

I feel the same way. I have Sram Rival 1 on my "gravel" bike. It's my Kona Rove that I use as my allrounder. Pretty much all road riding. The jumps aren't great, but I don't care. This is a bike I just cruise on. It's also my fendered rain bike for the lovely PNW. If this were as good as 1x for got for road riding, I wouldn't be considering this swap. It wouldn't work for what I'm considering.

What may be getting missed here is that I'm specifically talking about Sram's XPLR setup. That cassette (10-44) is pretty good in terms of not having big jumps. This bike won't be going on rough gravel where super low gears are needed. A 42-10 is plenty fast for the road. It's not far off a compact chainring setup with an 11-27. And the 42-44 is less than 1-1 for slow days or having bags on the bike...or for being fat, like me, to assist with double digit climbing (lots of around me).

Current cassette (10-33) v XPLR:
10-33t: 10-11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28-33
10-44t: 10-11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-38-44

Only missing the 12 and 14 with XPLR. Then, in the gears, seems fine to me. Diff being 32 vs 33....then getting 2 lower gears. Thus the benefits for 1x.

[fika]

Originally Posted by lavi

You're not so much an outlier as you are fit!

Considering that getting 1:1 ratios, or lower, for road riding...that's a relatively newer thing. I know it's not...but it is. We aren't discussing triples here. A compact 50/34 with an 12-28 used to be considered a super low climbing gear. But ya, on this bike, being it's intended for lots of stuff, having <1:1 would be handy.



I feel the same way. I have Sram Rival 1 on my "gravel" bike. It's my Kona Rove that I use as my allrounder. Pretty much all road riding. The jumps aren't great, but I don't care. This is a bike I just cruise on. It's also my fendered rain bike for the lovely PNW. If this were as good as 1x for got for road riding, I wouldn't be considering this swap. It wouldn't work for what I'm considering.

What may be getting missed here is that I'm specifically talking about Sram's XPLR setup. That cassette (10-44) is pretty good in terms of not having big jumps. This bike won't be going on rough gravel where super low gears are needed. A 42-10 is plenty fast for the road. It's not far off a compact chainring setup with an 11-27. And the 42-44 is less than 1-1 for slow days or having bags on the bike...or for being fat, like me, to assist with double digit climbing (lots of around me).

Current cassette (10-33) v XPLR:
10-33t: 10-11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28-33
10-44t: 10-11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-38-44

Only missing the 12 and 14 with XPLR. Then, in the gears, seems fine to me. Diff being 32 vs 33....then getting 2 lower gears. Thus the benefits for 1x.

The road bike I'm building right now is going to be using 46x 10-44 XPLR (Rival). Close enough to 1:1 on the low end, and basically the same as a 50x11 on the top end.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by lavi

What may be getting missed here is that I'm specifically talking about Sram's XPLR setup. That cassette (10-44) is pretty good in terms of not having big jumps. This bike won't be going on rough gravel where super low gears are needed. A 42-10 is plenty fast for the road. It's not far off a compact chainring setup with an 11-27. And the 42-44 is less than 1-1 for slow days or having bags on the bike...or for being fat, like me, to assist with double digit climbing (lots of around me).

Current cassette (10-33) v XPLR:
10-33t: 10-11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28-33
10-44t: 10-11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-38-44

Only missing the 12 and 14 with XPLR. Then, in the gears, seems fine to me. Diff being 32 vs 33....then getting 2 lower gears. Thus the benefits for 1x.

A few people cited the cassette jumps with the XLPR cassette, and I know did as well. Missing the 12 and 14 is HUGE if you ever intend to run a front ring larger than a 36t and intend to ride more than 20mph while putting power into the pedals. With a 38t front you have 13, 15 and 18% cadence jumps from 17-25mph. IMO that sucks since those speeds are exactly when you want maximum pedaling smoothness.

But again it’s up to you whether those jumps are OK with your pedaling style and bike usage.

[lavi]

Originally Posted by fika

The road bike I'm building right now is going to be using 46x 10-44 XPLR (Rival). Close enough to 1:1 on the low end, and basically the same as a 50x11 on the top end.

True.

Originally Posted by yinzerniner

A few people cited the cassette jumps with the XLPR cassette, and I know did as well. Missing the 12 and 14 is HUGE if you ever intend to run a front ring larger than a 36t and intend to ride more than 20mph while putting power into the pedals. With a 38t front you have 13, 15 and 18% cadence jumps from 17-25mph. IMO that sucks since those speeds are exactly when you want maximum pedaling smoothness.

But again it’s up to you whether those jumps are OK with your pedaling style and bike usage.

And true. Yes, those jumps are not super small. Thank you (for real) for the reminder. And, I'd likely not be super stoked with them. Thus, this fun mental masturbation.

[sparky33]

Ekar's 1x13 cassette keeps the 1 tooth steps where it matters. There you go.

Though I don't recall the last time that cassette steps on any 1x caused me any bother. The whole 1x concept is great atmo.

[NHAero]

I wouldn't like the 21-24-28 portion of that 10-44 cassette in a 1X set-up.

[lavi]

Originally Posted by sparky33

Ekar's 1x13 cassette keeps the 1 tooth steps where it matters. There you go.

Though I don't recall the last time that cassette steps on any 1x caused me any bother. The whole 1x concept is great atmo.

Concur. And, I’d like Ekar on something at some point. Maybe when the supply is less crazy.

Not this bike though. No holes in the frame. By design, eTap only.

[Bici-Sonora]

I have an Eagle 12 speed 1x set up on my MTB—where it belongs. It’s great off road and annoying on road. I love the looks of Ekar so i hope that it has smaller jumps. I’d like to try it.


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[NHAero]

I dunno how much it really matters, but another advantage of the 2X set-up is generally better operating chainline.

[Dave]

The Garbaruk cages and pulleys for SRAM are for 1X only. to use MTB cassettes. The SRAM 13T chainring difference sucks, IMO. I want more range, so I've only used 16 or 17T difference, with Campy Chorus or shimano grx cranks. Both work with the AXS flat top chain and I've never had a chain drop in 6,000 miles. I read of many chain drop problems with SRAM axs and sram 13T chainrings, but I suspect most are caused by poor FD setup. The flat top chain works with Campy 12 and I expect with any 12 speed cassette. The opposite is not true. I tried a Shimano 12 chain on my SRAM axs cassette and it did not work well. That actually surprised me.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by Dave

The Garbaruk cages and pulleys for SRAM are for 1X only. to use MTB cassettes. The SRAM 13T chainring difference sucks, IMO. I want more range, so I've only used 16 or 17T difference, with Campy Chorus or shimano grx cranks. Both work with the AXS flat top chain and I've never had a chain drop in 6,000 miles. I read of many chain drop problems with SRAM axs and sram 13T chainrings, but I suspect most are caused by poor FD setup. The flat top chain works with Campy 12 and I expect with any 12 speed cassette. The opposite is not true. I tried a Shimano 12 chain on my SRAM axs cassette and it did not work well. That actually surprised me.

The issue with chain drop isn’t setup, it’s position retention. Since shimano has patents on what seems to be the most optimized geometry, movement and chainring design for front derailleurs SRAM can only play catch up and mitigation. Limiting the jump to 13t helps but if the derailleur doesn’t stay in the exact setup positions then the cage can move more and thus introduces drops. Remember on the first gen Etap they had to add support wedges because the RD moved too much even when set up properly. Now the setup can be perfect with the tool, but unless you check regularly it could drift a bit and cause problems.

With shimano you can have rings worn to sharks teeth and a chain that’s stretched AF but will still shift up and down flawlessly with no tuning.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by yinzerniner

The issue with chain drop isn’t setup, it’s position retention. Since shimano has patents on what seems to be the most optimized geometry, movement and chainring design for front derailleurs SRAM can only play catch up and mitigation. Limiting the jump to 13t helps but if the derailleur doesn’t stay in the exact setup positions then the cage can move more and thus introduces drops. Remember on the first gen Etap they had to add support wedges because the RD moved too much even when set up properly. Now the setup can be perfect with the tool, but unless you check regularly it could drift a bit and cause problems.

With shimano you can have rings worn to sharks teeth and a chain that’s stretched AF but will still shift up and down flawlessly with no tuning.

Campy 12 cranks work fine too. Many sram crank users have no problems. Sram provides wedges, but I've never used them. The most common problem is the installer has the alignment marks parallel to the big ring with the clamp bolt lightly tightened, but the FD rotates slightly when the bolt is fully tightened and the FD then performs poorly. I carefully measure the space between cage and crank arm before and after tightening.

[Maw262]

1x for road work great for me. 44 tooth chainring with 10-36 cassette on one bike. Other bike is currently being converted to 46 tooth oval ring with 10-44 xplr cassette. I live in a hilly area and many routes have greater than 100 ft of elevation per mile. However, not many sustained climbs greater than 2 miles.