kristoff no-likey tubeless @ roubaix

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by benb

It's like the reason they keep using the tubulars is because it's the only setup the mechanics understand and the riders demand something that doesn't make sense if they're on anything but tubulars?

I've nearly quit using tubulars because for my usage (key words: My Usage) fat clinchers work really well these days. By fat I mean 25mm.

But tubulars are really great for a reason. They're actually really reliable. It's a mature technology. I rode tubulars for decades and flatted way, way less than my clincher-riding buddies. Don't know why, but there must be a reason.

I'm not defending tubulars out of some kind of old-world or elitism or luddite-ism or anything like that. I defend them because they actually work well.

Also, I am not sure folks understand that Paris-Roubaix is NOT your local gravel ride. It's a road race and having raced in Europe I can assure you they're going really, really fast much of the time. It's hard to appreciate the speed from the TV. It's not a recreational ride on some hard packed dirt roads.

[madsciencenow]

Originally Posted by saab2000

Also, I am not sure folks understand that Paris-Roubaix is NOT your local gravel ride. It's a road race and having raced in Europe I can assure you they're going really, really fast much of the time. It's hard to appreciate the speed from the TV. It's not a recreational ride on some hard packed dirt roads.

It's funny that you mention the speed because it's something I noticed yesterday for the first time. I don't know if it was the camera angle on the back of the motorbike from a really low angle looking back or what, but it hit me that there's no way in he** I could ride like that on a road bike over that surface for any appreciable amount of time.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I don't often ride tubulars, but I ride with some riders who still regularly use them (old habits for old riders). I've witnessed several tubular pinch flats, so I know they are not immune to them. Although it does appear that pinch flats with tubulars are much less common than with clinchers.

Yup..in 38 years of using tubulars, I have never pinch flatted a tubular.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Yup..in 38 years of using tubulars, I have never pinch flatted a tubular.

I did once. The funny thing was that it didn’t flat right away, but next day or so lost air and wouldn’t hold air. The blow that caused this was enough to damage a Campagnolo Nucleon rim, and those were as tough as any aluminum rim I’ve ever seen. Unannounced pothole in a fast paceline, hit at full force. Surprised I didn’t crash or break my frame.

A clincher would have been toast.

[BikeNY]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Yup..in 38 years of using tubulars, I have never pinch flatted a tubular.

That just means you're running the pressure too high!

I have no idea what I would choose if I were riding that race. I come from an MTB background, and tubeless there has been an amazing improvement. I can run lower pressures and still flat much less than when running tubes. Small punctures seal up instantly, you usually don't even know it happened. Of course you can still get flats. Smashing your wheel into a rock and bottoming out the rim can cause a pinch flat, but if you did the same thing with a tube, the result would be the same or probably worse.

The trick is finding the right tire width and pressure for your terrain, riding style, weight, etc.

If it's true that he was riding 25mm wide tires, the result is not surprising at all, and it sound like his pressure was too low. I think the results would have been the same whether he was running tubular, tubes, or tubeless.

[msngr]

To those criticizing Kristoff for criticizing his sponsors, please note that he was careful not to blame the equipment at all. He said his choice of equipment was wrong (and I took this to mean that the combination was not good). He took all the blame himself.

[benb]

My comment about tubulars was mostly sarcastic.

I am not sure I've ever had a pinch flat in 20 years road/mtb/gravel/whatever. The majority of my miles have been clincher.

Point being these race mishaps always indicate something was screwed up. But we always get the chorus of "if only they were running tubulars!"

I think they just screw up tubular usage less cause it's their default, their home base, what they have the most experience with, etc..

I've watched Paris Roubaix many times and have rode on cobblestones, bricks, whatever. I know they are fast but it has never struck me as particularly rough terrain when you include the entire gamut of what is out there for terrain that gets bicycled over. Riding over cobblestones is not any harder than jumping/bumping through rock gardens in the woods, and high level MTB guys are doing that as fast as the pack travels at Paris Roubaix or faster.

All their issues seem to be a result of trying really hard to keep the tire sizes down as small as possible because they have to worry about a lot of miles of high speed smooth pavement too. And of course lots of weight weenie stuff too.

Tubeless usage for me has always equaled way lower pressures, basically never flatting, obviously lower rolling resistance, increased traction, etc.. but I am generally riding over much rougher terrain than Paris Roubaix and I'm using bigger tires.

The only flat I've had on Tubeless was a sidewall tear that was almost 1/2" long and the Stans sealant still allowed me to get back to the car with occasional stops to add pressure back to the tire. That Hutchinson tire was pretty weak in sidewalls for an off road tire. I've never had anything like that happen again. Maybe I've had pinprick punctures but I'd never know.

Every one of these types of technologies with teething problems seems to be a failure of the bike industry/pro teams to transfer MTB technology over to road. It's really interesting stuff.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I did once. The funny thing was that it didn’t flat right away, but next day or so lost air and wouldn’t hold air. The blow that caused this was enough to damage a Campagnolo Nucleon rim, and those were as tough as any aluminum rim I’ve ever seen. Unannounced pothole in a fast paceline, hit at full force. Surprised I didn’t crash or break my frame.

A clincher would have been toast.

Hit a ledge on a new highway so hard I broke a chunk out of rear hub flange, tire didn’t puncture. A tubular.

[shoota]

Originally Posted by benb

Riding over cobblestones is not any harder than jumping/bumping through rock gardens in the woods, and high level MTB guys are doing that as fast as the pack travels at Paris Roubaix or faster.

MTBers are riding through rock gardens at 30mph??

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by shoota

MTBers are riding through rock gardens at 30mph??

Gravity riders, sure. They are also on 2.5” double or triple ply tires, have 8+” of travel front and rear, and probably rim protection inserts. And body armor.

[jtbadge]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Hit a ledge on a new highway so hard I broke a chunk out of rear hub flange, tire didn’t puncture. A tubular.

I'd rather have a flat clincher than a broken hub.

[shoota]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Gravity riders, sure. They are also on 2.5” double or triple ply tires, have 8+” of travel front and rear, and probably rim protection inserts. And body armor.

Wow that's fast.

I guess I always thought riding tubulars was beneficial because you can ride on a flat for quite a while. I can see that being enormously beneficial in a road race, for team car support reasons.

[pbarry]

Gary Fisher designed and made by Vittoria mtb tubular tires have appeared in 26er and 29er versions through the years but never caught on.

Originally Posted by benb

Just think how much better MTBs would ride with Tubulars. Tubulars are magic!

What I don't quite get is just like Disc Brakes how this keeps getting screwed up.

They should have figured out how to run tubeless road at pressures lower than a tubular can handle a long time ago.

It's like the reason they keep using the tubulars is because it's the only setup the mechanics understand and the riders demand something that doesn't make sense if they're on anything but tubulars?

[William]

Tubeless? Bead-locks = No burpee.







W.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

I'd rather have a flat clincher than a broken hub.

I guess you forgot the
Are ya really saying if I had a clincher I wouldn't have broken the hub, just flatted the tire and broken the rim? Ya sure..

I re-used the rim, BTW..