The 'Best' Grand Tour has Started-Giro 2020-Spoliers probably - Page 4

ibis · #46 10-23-2020, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpw

Vegni was seething today, and I fully agree with him. An outrageous manipulation of the race by Sunweb, aided and abetted most probably by Quickstep and Movistar.

Hmm, extenuating circumstances maybe? If there were no pandemic, and if there was a more protective bubble for the riders I can see them completing today's stage with the weather as is. It sounds like a majority of the teams agreed with the decision. Nothing about this season has been normal.

jpw · #47 10-23-2020, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibis

Hmm, extenuating circumstances maybe? If there were no pandemic, and if there was a more protective bubble for the riders I can see them completing today's stage with the weather as is. It sounds like a majority of the teams agreed with the decision. Nothing about this season has been normal.

I didn't gain the impression that this was about the pandemic. It felt strategically convenient for a certain team with two riders 1 and 2 in the GC to have today's stage cut short. Kelderman looked close to bonking yesterday, and Hindley can't time trial. If a Sunweb rider finishes the Giro in first place I hope Vegni refuses to award the victory. Riders and teams should not pick and choose the nature of stages. Very bad for the credibility of competition.

We might never have seen Froome's epic stage 19 victory in 2018.

trener1 · #48 10-23-2020, 09:46 PM

I am aware of what happened today in general, I also agree that it suites sunweb, but where have you seen that it was instigated by Sunweb? I haven't seen any mention of that on any of the cycling media outlets, or even the socials.

jpw · #49 10-24-2020, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trener1

I am aware of what happened today in general, I also agree that it suites sunweb, but where have you seen that it was instigated by Sunweb? I haven't seen any mention of that on any of the cycling media outlets, or even the socials.

A process of elimination. Lotto Soudal management came out and disassociated itself from Adam Hansen's actions, pointing out that he was acting as a CPA rep and not as a LS rider or employee. LS didn't agree with the shortening. Neither did Bora, Ineos, Groupama and the Italian teams, which essentially leaves the three big hitters, Sunweb, QS and Movistar, none of whom have been mentioned, which is always the 'tell'. Sunweb want to commit a form of sporting fraud to win the race. Quickstep simply doesn't want Ineos to succeed, and Movistar has a vendetta against Ineos over the Carapaz transfer.

Additionally, the change to today's mountain stage has a strong hint of interference by ASO, which continually seeks to weaken RCS.

rain dogs · #50 10-24-2020, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpw

Vegni was seething today, and I fully agree with him. An outrageous manipulation of the race by Sunweb, aided and abetted most probably by Quickstep and Movistar.

By Movistar? Why the heck would Movistar have any motivation to call for a shortened stage? If anything, Movistar's problems arise from being too traditionalist/conservative and they likely would have been in the voices to keep the stage as it was.

jpw · #51 10-24-2020, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rain dogs

By Movistar? Why the heck would Movistar have any motivation to call for a shortened stage? If anything, Movistar's problems arise from being too traditionalist/conservative and they likely would have been in the voices to keep the stage as it was.

Movistar now refuses to employ any rider signed to Carapaz's agent. The only other way to settle its grudge directly against Ineos is as we saw yesterday. As I write Carapaz is attempting to win in...Spain, Movistar's home territory. Politics is economics by other means, and visa versa. If people think pro cycling is 'sport' they are deluded.

Vientomas · #52 10-24-2020, 05:57 AM

https://twitter.com/HansenAdam/statu...10361658994693

rain dogs · #53 10-24-2020, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpw

Movistar now refuses to employ any rider signed to Carapaz's agent. The only other way to settle its grudge directly against Ineos is as we saw yesterday. As I write Carapaz is attempting to win in...Spain, Movistar's home territory. Politics is economics by other means, and visa versa. If people think pro cycling is 'sport' they are deluded.

That's a whopper of a conspiracy, but I think reality is it's more active imagination. Certainly there is no doubt that Movistar and Unzue were angry with Acquardo as he's encouraged riders that Movistar has developed for years to break their contract with the team (which is actually illegal in Spain without compensation) and move to Ineos for much more money. More than anything, Unzue is just tired of that process than he is angry. Movistar puts a lot of time and money into these riders and Acquardo encourages them to just bail the minute Ineos opens their wallet to buy away competition.

I live in Spain, and there is nothing in the media that indicates any ill-will that would carry over into the races. Unzue was just speaking fondly about Carapaz and his chances to win the Vuelta yesterday.

I fail to see how shortening a sprinters stage in the Giro (that likely wasn't going to do anything significant to reduce the chances of Geoghegan Hart) is going to affect Carapaz in Spain???

But maybe you're right, I just saw a who group of people walk past my window with Carapaz voodoo dolls!

trener1 · #54 10-24-2020, 07:51 AM

I dont know, I think that you are really reaching to make something up that just does not exist.

See here, there are lots of tweets from lots of riders that support the shortened stage https://cyclingtips.com/2020/10/stag...rider-protest/

Again, I agree with you that it was a wrong decision, but putting this on Sunweb is just a reach that I think just isn't the case.

prototoast · #55 10-24-2020, 08:33 AM

I generally agree with the riders here, and yet it's one more blow that has completely delegitimized this Giro. The top favorite crashed out, the next favorite gets Covid, two teams drop out from Covid, the queen stage is re-routed to take out the biggest climbs, and then another stage is shortened. In my mind, I've just written off the whole race this year. At least the Vuelta is looking better.

ddtn · #56 10-24-2020, 12:31 PM

I've liked the race this year. I think it's been way more exciting than TDF and I've been falling asleep following the Vuelta.

Tao Geoghegan Hart is gonna take it in the TT, no? I can't see Hindley beating him, and Kelderman cannot possibly pull a Pogacar, no? I'm quite biased here as the kid grew up a mile down the road from where I live.

rain dogs · #57 10-24-2020, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddtn

I've liked the race this year. I think it's been way more exciting than TDF and I've been falling asleep following the Vuelta.

Tao Geoghegan Hart is gonna take it in the TT, no? I can't see Hindley beating him, and Kelderman cannot possibly pull a Pogacar, no? I'm quite biased here as the kid grew up a mile down the road from where I live.

You've been falling asleep with the Vuelta, but are riveted by the Giro? Wow. This years Giro is one of the worst races (other than today) in the last 2 decades. Almost everyday has been a 6 minute break up the road and the peloton just chugging along protecting Almieda. There's been like 3, maybe 4, good stages.

And as for the Vuelta. What exactly do you like in GT racing, cause its only on day 5 and the first three stages were up and down with uphill finishes and drama that affected all the overall contenders - not to mention the additional "what will Froome be?" drama. Has a GT ever begun like this? What keeps you awake is what I'd like to know?

Bici-Sonora · #58 10-24-2020, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rain dogs

You've been falling asleep with the Vuelta, but are riveted by the Giro? Wow. This years Giro is one of the worst races (other than today) in the last 2 decades. Almost everyday has been a 6 minute break up the road and the peloton just chugging along protecting Almieda. There's been like 3, maybe 4, good stages.

And as for the Vuelta. What exactly do you like in GT racing, cause its only on day 5 and the first three stages were up and down with uphill finishes and drama that affected all the overall contenders - not to mention the additional "what will Froome be?" drama. Has a GT ever begun like this? What keeps you awake is what I'd like to know?

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Bici-Sonora · #59 10-24-2020, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bici-Sonora

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“its only on day 5 and the first three stages were up and down with uphill finishes and drama that affected all the overall contenders”

I agree, the Vuelta has been great so far for me. Looking forward to the mountain top finish shootout tomorrow between Roglic, Dan Martin, Carapaz and Más. Add in Kuss and others as wildcards and there is a lot cheer about.

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jpw · #60 10-24-2020, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vientomas

https://twitter.com/HansenAdam/statu...10361658994693

I can see why Hansen is a CPA rep. He has a political head on his shoulders. His statement refers to 16 teams taking a vote to shorten the stage, but it doesn't say how many (or which) teams voted for it. He then talks about only four riders being at the start line, with the rest being under a tent. His machinations were causing the delay to the start. It would be sensible to take shelter from the rain under those circumstances. It doesn't follow that all the riders (minus four) under the the tent were wanting the stage to be cut short. Hansen's being as slippery as an eel in the way he's worded his statement.