On Female Frame Builders…

[XXtwindad]

Read an interesting article in “Bicycling” recently: https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...bike-builders/

It’s no secret that frame building has long been the province of mostly (white) men. There are a few notable exceptions, such as the Sycip Brothers. But a “female frame builder” still seems oxymoronic in this day and age.

Does anyone on the Forum own a bike made by a female frame builder? I was vaguely familiar with “Moth Attack” cycles (great logo/head badge) but that was about it. Tellingly, of the six builders profiled, four of them live and work outside the continental U.S.

This paragraph caught my eye:

“For years, bikes were designed around a man’s body, reflecting—at least in part—who was doing the designing. Then many of the major bike manufacturers began targeting the women’s market with “women’s-specific” bikes. But the approach had its limits. “Women’s-specific bikes are supposed to fit this average or maybe idealized woman’s body. But a woman’s body can look like a lot of different things,” says Jackie Mautner, a Philadelphia bike builder who creates custom frames under the name Untitled Cycles. “I don’t think that [marketing] speaks to the diversity of gender, to the diversity of actual bodies.”

[john903]

Natalie Ramsdale of Sweet Pea Bicycles. I think she is out of Portland, Or. I saw one in 2015 on 300K brevet. I have only seen that one I hope she is still building it was a nice well made frame.

[Waldo62]

Luna frames by Margo Conover. She is not building any longer.

[BobbyJones]

I bet you there’s more than one woman on the factory floor at Giant who’s making more frames a day than US male frame builders combined produce in a year.

Does that count?

[pasadena]

Originally Posted by BobbyJones

I bet you there’s more than one woman on the factory floor at Giant who’s making more frames a day than US male frame builders combined produce in a year.

Does that count?

Bonnie Tu, founder of Liv, and Giant CFO - one of the the 'giants' of the cycling industry.

[rain dogs]

Caren Hartley makes as nice of bicycles as I've ever seen. And her collab work with Talbot (Isen) is amazing. I've lusted after an Isen for a long time.

[timto]

I do not own one, but have seen, met and admired the skills of Danielle Schon who is actively building https://www.instagram.com/schonstudio/

As for visible minority builders in NA I guess I would have been one at one time, and Dickson Bou of Wake Robin currently builds https://www.instagram.com/wake_robin_cycles/

And even earlier was Renold Yip of Yipsan and James Morikawa out of Hawaii probably a bunch of others!

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

It’s no secret that frame building has long been the province of mostly (white) men. There are a few notable exceptions, such as the Sycip Brothers. But a “female frame builder” still seems oxymoronic in this day and age.

I think you'll see more women in a UBI framebuilding class than you'd expect, but actually starting up a framebuilding business is another story.

That ultimately requires a surplus of money, so the person is already making enough on their day job to support their weekend hobby to eventually turn it into a weekend business. Which of course will be more difficult for women when they're still being paid less than men for equal work, in addition to having to pay out of pocket for "feminine hygiene products", expected to always "look nice", paying more for haircuts, etc.

[Doug Fattic]

Julie Ann Pedalino in Kansas City was one of my framebuilding class students and made beautiful frames from 2013 unit just recently. Her instagram is full of pictures of frames she built. She has an art background and graduated from the Chicago Art Institute. I think now she is into making jewelry.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by slowpoke

I think you'll see more women in a UBI framebuilding class than you'd expect, but actually starting up a framebuilding business is another story.

That ultimately requires a surplus of money, so the person is already making enough on their day job to support their weekend hobby to eventually turn it into a weekend business. Which of course will be more difficult for women when they're still being paid less than men for equal work, in addition to having to pay out of pocket for "feminine hygiene products", expected to always "look nice", paying more for haircuts, etc.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the cost of feminine hygiene products is not the reason we don't see more female framebuilders.

Aside from the builders, the attendees at NAHBS are overwhelmingly male. Participants at bike races are overwhelmingly male. People on this message board are overwhelmingly male. Framebuilding is overwhelmingly male because as of right now, the pool of people who are interested in framebuilding more broadly are overwhelmingly male.

On top of that, framebuilding is a brutal industry that only a small handful of people are able to get respectable financial returns from.

I would love to see both the participants and industry of cycling have more gender diversity, but it strikes me as both crazy and patronizing to think that more women aren't becoming framebuilders because they spend more money on their hair.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by prototoast

I would love to see both the participants and industry of cycling have more gender diversity, but it strikes me as both crazy and patronizing to think that more women aren't becoming framebuilders because they spend more money on their hair.

You really missed the point of the post you are responding to.

Yes, there may very well be very few women at NAHBS, at bike races, on cycling message boards, and interested in frame building. But is that because women inherently are not interested in those things, or is it because society discourages them (socially and financially) every step of way?

[Mark McM]

I don't personally own one, but some of the fabricators at Seven and Independent Fabrications (both local to me) are women.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

You really missed the point of the post you are responding to.

Yes, there may very well be very few women at NAHBS, at bike races, on cycling message boards, and interested in frame building. But is that because women inherently are not interested in those things, or is it because society discourages them (socially and financially) every step of way?

I have always been of the mindset that if you let society or anything else stop you from doing what you want then you are the problem. Not the "whatever" is discouraging you.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

I have always been of the mindset that if you let society or anything else stop you from doing what you want then you are the problem. Not the "whatever" is discouraging you.

It's hard to want to do something if all you get is discouragement. Or if there are no examples of people that look like you who are doing something, to know that it is something you might want to do to begin with. Sure, some people want something enough to persevere regardless. But too many others who might also do well in a particular area will get side-railed before they get a real chance.

Today, about 37% of medical doctors are women. In 1950, about 6% of doctors were women. Are you saying that the only difference is that women just didn't want to be doctors hard enough in 1950?

[unterhausen]

I'm very conflicted about this. It's not exactly a great living. Encouraging someone to go into framebuilding is like encouraging them to get a job at arby's. Except Arby's pays better and there are no startup expenses.

I would help a woman builder as much as I could though.