OT: Good Thread - What is the most obscure car you've seen in the wild?

[huck*this]

Originally Posted by doubleklobbs

There's also a Ferrari F12 TDF in back and a Ferrari 333SP in the foreground. Can't place my finger on the 50s racing car.

Good eye. Not surprised on the 50s race car. It is a Fiat Speciale 1of1.

[beaverstuff]

I thought this forum was about bicycles and 'bents.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by beaverstuff

I thought this forum was about bicycles and 'bents.

There used to be an joke:

What's the difference between Car & Driver Magazine and Bicycling Magazine?

Bicycling Magazine has more car ads.

[TimD]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Those aren't cars. Those are low flying airplanes. A car is driven by its wheels, and these are not.

Originally, jet 'cars' were not allowed to compete for land speed records. A separate category had to be created for them, and they now compete in a separate category for non-wheel powered vehicles.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You can read more about classification of these vehicles here. TLDR: The word 'automobile' features prominently.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by TimD

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You can read more about classification of these vehicles here. TLDR: The word 'automobile' features prominently.

Except that even here, while there are multiple classifications of wheel powered vehicles which are labeled 'automobiles', there is a completely separate classification (Class C) where all the jet and rocket powered vehicles are lumped together and labeled 'special automobiles'. So even the organization that certifies land speed records doesn't consider them as standard 'automobiles'

By your definition, when it was first offered for sale in 1967, the Boeing 737 was the worlds fastest stock production 'automobile', regularly reaching a speed of 200 mph with its wheels on the ground:

[TimD]

Gee, a 737! Never seen one of those before! Totally obscure.

Sorry I missed the narrow definition of 'car' at the top. I'll be more careful next time.

Anyway, anyone else interested in extreme and obscure... um how about 'Wheeled Vehicles'*... should feel free to enjoy the photos. Both Breedlove and Andy Green have cojones bigger than fat bike tires.

* That definition pending until explicitly or implicitly approved by He Who Shall Post-Facto Define 'Car', who can do some public good identifying what 'car' currently holds the 'car' LSR.

[TimD]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Except that even here, while there are multiple classifications of wheel powered vehicles which are labeled 'automobiles', there is a completely separate classification (Class C) where all the jet and rocket powered vehicles are lumped together and labeled 'special automobiles'. So even the organization that certifies land speed records doesn't consider them as standard 'automobiles'

Sorry, I'm missing stuff today, could you point out where in the regulations 'Standard Automobile' is defined? Just for future reference. Thanks!

[Mark McM]

[QUOTE=TimD;2489943]Sorry, I'm missing stuff today, could you point out where in the regulations 'Standard Automobile' is defined? Just for future reference. Thanks!

Careful with your quotes - I didn't refer to 'Standard Automobiles', but to standard 'Automobiles' (is in, a vehicle defined as an 'Automobile', and not a 'Special Automobile').

You'll notice that in the FIA regulations you posted, specifically define items (such as 'Automobiles', 'National Records', 'World Records') are indicated by using italics. Here are the vehicle class definitions from the document, presented verbatim with the original italics:

ARTICLE D2.3 Categories.
D2.3.1 Category A: Automobiles answering exclusively to the
standards fixed in Article D1.1.1, using free fuel and divided into
groups and classes according to Articles D1 and D18.
D2.3.2 Category B: Series-production Automobiles in
production at the time of the application for the Record Attempt and
certified to be a production representative model by a senior
executive of the automobile manufacturer.
D2.3.2.a Before the running of the Record Attempt, three
Automobiles must come from the assembly line of the production
site under supervision of an official nominated by the ASN of the
manufacturing country and/or by the FIA.
D2.3.2.b These Automobiles will be run in under constant
supervision of this official and once the running in is completed, the
Competitor will choose from amongst the three Automobiles the
one which he will retain for the Record Attempt.
D2.3.2.c The running in must be a simple rolling over a maximum
of 2000 kilometres.
D2.3.2.d Any defective part may be replaced with identical parts
on condition that the replacement operations are carried out under
the control of the nominated official.
D2.3.2.e For the running in and the Record Attempt, the fuel used
must comply with Article 252 of Appendix J or be commercial biofuel
homologated for the Automobile by its manufacturer.
D2.3.3 Category C: Special Automobiles.
D2.3.3.a These Records may be subdivided according to the type
of engine used (jet, rocket, etc.).

I seriously doubt that it coincidental that all the wheel powered vehicles are referred to as simply Automobiles, whereas the jet and rocket powered vehicles are specifically referred to as Special Automobiles.



As far as the Boeing 737 -

Many car companies have described their cars using phrases like "worlds fastest production car", even though they don't meet FIA's specific definitions. In many cases they only meet a very loose definition of "production car", because there are so few actually produced, and those that are have been largely hand built. But in the case of the Boeing 737, with over 10,000 built on a production line, it safely meets any definition of production vehicle. As far as being a "car", well, it is a vehicle with wheels that run along the ground, and it is entirely self-powered, and it is controlled by the driver with steerable front wheels, so how is it any less a car than the vehicles you pointed out? And do you know of any other high production, stock (non-modified) cars that could regularly go 200 mph on flat ground in 1967? (Other than other vehicles which could fly?)

So, is the 737 the world's fastest production car? Of course not, that's ridiculous, a 737 is an airplane, not an automobile. Which makes it just as ridiculous as calling any jet or rocket powered vehicle an 'automobile'.

[doubleklobbs]

Originally Posted by huck*this

Good eye. Not surprised on the 50s race car. It is a Fiat Speciale 1of1.

Darn, I was leaning Maserati or something else non-Ferrari.

I've been at Mont Tremblant for Corse Clienti days when Stroll (Sr) has some of his collection out, including the 333SP. They're amazing machines. One year there were about four 250GTOs on track at once. Pretty thrilling.

Here's mine for possibly most obscure car in the wild. A La Forza:

[TimD]

[QUOTE=Mark McM;2489954]

Originally Posted by TimD

Sorry, I'm missing stuff today, could you point out where in the regulations 'Standard Automobile' is defined? Just for future reference. Thanks!

Careful with your quotes - I didn't refer to 'Standard Automobiles', but to standard 'Automobiles' (is in, a vehicle defined as an 'Automobile', and not a 'Special Automobile').

You didn't?

Except that even here, while there are multiple classifications of wheel powered vehicles which are labeled 'automobiles', there is a completely separate classification (Class C) where all the jet and rocket powered vehicles are lumped together and labeled 'special automobiles'. So even the organization that certifies land speed records doesn't consider them as standard 'automobiles'

[Mark McM]

[QUOTE=TimD;2489967]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

You didn't?

No I didn't. Pay attention to syntax and quote placement. The word standard in that quote is not part of a name or label, but is simply verbiage to describe something that is normal and not unusual, in order to contrast it with something that is special and not normal. In other words: A standard 'Automobile' (denoted as simply Automobile) is distinct from a special 'Automobile' (denoted as Special Automobile).

Also, what about the 737? Do you affirm or deny it is an automobile (and a really fast one)?

[cgolvin]

These last exchanges make me think this thread's title needs revisiting.
And I don't mean the 'car' part.

[jlwdm]

It only takes a couple of people to ruin a good thread.

Jeff

[texbike]

OK, to get this back on track...

I haven't personally seen this one in the wild, but this current BaT auction is just too cool not to share. It's a late 40s era salt-flat, belly tank racer. Stunning!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...tank-lakester/

Enjoy the pics, video, and commentary!

Texbike

[djg]

So . . . I like the thread a whole bunch, even if it highlights that fact that I'm not nearly as much of a car guy as I might sometimes imagine, not that I ever imagined any extraordinary expertise.

I even like some of the back and forth about planes -- the question what counts as A or B is not a fundamental question about life or the workings of the universe, but so what? We, collectively, have ways of deciding what counts as the technology and its applications change -- I'm not wholly uninterested in what folks say about that, even if my interest runs out relatively quickly (probably because I don't care that much about these records). It sort of makes me think about the recent bicycle land speed record, which seemed to me both awesome and nuts. And . . . not to take anything away from the accomplishment, made me wonder whether there are category records -- for example, a record for a bicycle that can be pedaled from a standing start, or without a slipstream, etc. There's the hour record, of course, which has its own rules, but I'm wondering about these land speed records.