Paul Racer M vs Mid Reach brakes

[sokyroadie]

Contemplating a semi fat tire rim brake bike and curious what the max. (700c) tire size you can run if everything is optimized. I assume it would be the single bolt Racer M not the braze on version. I have a bike with 35 x 700c tires with mid reach brakes currently and doesn't appear to be room for anything much bigger. The bike was not really built for mid reach brakes (canti frame https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=262460 ) so possibly room for larger if designed that way.

Fork and frame would be custom if I decide to go this route.

NO Discs, canti's or Mini- Vees welcome

[donevwil]

My bike with braze-on Racer Ms clears Barlow Pass 38s (measure ~39.5) with ease. I haven't tried anything larger due to chainstay limitations. My wife has a bike with braze-on Racers that also runs Barlow Pass tires plus fenders. It all fits, but there's little daylight for brake opening to facilitate effective wheel removal. I imagine she could run Snoqualmie 44s without fenders, but I've never tested it.

Strangely the Paul Components website no longer shows the Racers, I wonder if they've been discontinued?

[NHAero]

I'm not sure if this is helpful info, but I just went down to look at my Bob Jackson, which has a Paul Racer center mount (not the Medium) on the front. I pulled the wheel and measured the distance between the brake pads at 37mm after releasing the straddle cable.

[muz]

Not sure what the question is. I love braze-on Racer's, don't like how Racer M's look.

[sokyroadie]

Originally Posted by muz

Not sure what the question is. I love braze-on Racer's, don't like how Racer M's look.

Basically if you can fit larger tires with the Racer M vs Mid reach calipers? I am not sure if the Racer is available anymore and also not sure if the braze on fitting is available in Ti, as the frame and fork will both be Ti if I pursue this.

[ewwhite]

I have a used pair of polished silver braze-on Racer M's available if you're looking.

[El Chaba]

For this type of application, I like the Rene Herse brakes as they are forged. Actually, I prefer the original Mafac brakes as I sort of think that those designs were close to perfect, but the Rene Herse brakes are a nice updated copy.

[merckx]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

For this type of application, I like the Rene Herse brakes as they are forged. Actually, I prefer the original Mafac brakes as I sort of think that those designs were close to perfect, but the Rene Herse brakes are a nice updated copy.

Rene Herse brakes are long reach and not medium reach. The top of the pad adjustment range is at 65mm. It would be nice if they made a mid-reach option that was 50-65mm.

[icepick_trotsky]

Gran Compe 610s are in that range -- 47 to 61mm. I believe they are CNC'ed, though.

[Blue4now]

Originally Posted by icepick_trotsky

Gran Compe 610s are in that range -- 47 to 61mm. I believe they are CNC'ed, though.

those are nice!

[muz]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

For this type of application, I like the Rene Herse brakes as they are forged. Actually, I prefer the original Mafac brakes as I sort of think that those designs were close to perfect, but the Rene Herse brakes are a nice updated copy.

I have both Paul and RH as braze-on versions, there is just no comparison, Pauls are better in just about every aspect. RH is a MAFAC clone, and has the same pad adjustment, toe-in, centering ability as a 1950's brake. Use RH if you use fat 650b tires; use Paul for everything else.

[zennmotion]

Pauls are also CNC'd, FWIW. The Gran Compes look nice, less expensive, I'm sure work great as much as I like the Pauls.

I have a set of centerbolt Racers. No complaints, they work very well and I frequently use them in steep fireroad terrain. Despite not being braze-on's they're plenty stiff; while there may be some performance advantage to the braze on version I doubt it's significant in real world terms, the main thing is a cleaner appearance without the additional stiffener arm piece in the back. My reason for not going with braze on's was reluctance from my custom builder over having to apply additional heat right at the fork crown during the build, said he'd do it but preferred not, I took the hint/advice.
I think that you get a little more clearance from Racer Ms than mid-reach calipers, but the main advantage is that you can also avoid having to deflate a tire to fit it between the brake shoes- up to a point (maybe 34/35mm, larger than that probably needs to be partially deflated).

[PacNW2Ford]

This might help. The fork is a custom steel IF with braze-ons for Racer-Ms. The tire is a Vittoria Corsa Control 30 on a Belgium Plus rim, measured width = 31.7mm, height ~29mm. There is about 9mm from bottom of arm to top of tire, pads are mid-slot. On the back, there is a little less clearance, the pads are a little higher in the slot, titanium posts, likely from Paragon.

[sokyroadie]

Thanks for all the pics/info - decisions decisions.

[El Chaba]

Originally Posted by merckx

Rene Herse brakes are long reach and not medium reach. The top of the pad adjustment range is at 65mm. It would be nice if they made a mid-reach option that was 50-65mm.

Now that I re-read the original post, I don’t know what the question is. That said, if the object is to combine wider tires, maybe fenders, and rim brakes the best solution is centerpulls. If the whole thing is going to be custom, the pivots should be brazed on and the calipers the smallest size that will get the job done. Mafac brakes with updated Koolstop pads are the best choice in my humble opinion, but I would do most anything to not use Paul’s…just from an aesthetic viewpoint….once again just my opinion ( but they are also not forged). Chacon a son gout.