The Carbon Comparison (s-works vs regular tarmac)

[bthomas515]

Long story short, in looking for a bike to ride until I can out of bike part purgatory for another build, I wound up with a regular tarmac and s-works tarmac. In looking through the production bike threads, someone asked about the difference between carbons so I figured I’d chime in now that I have good number of rides on both in the past few weeks.

The set ups -

2015 sl5 Tarmac s-works (11r carbon). Dura ace with trp brakes, clx 40 wheels. Random weight weenie parts. Just over 15 lbs.

2017 sl5 tarmac expert (10r carbon). Full ultegra with dt swiss r460 wheels. Bone stock with barely any use before buying. Right around 17.5 lbs.

After riding both a good amount, the s-works NOTICEABLY does everything better. Some of that can be chalked up to the wheels, but these are the areas I feel like the frame makes the difference.

1. I actually feel much more comfortable on the s-works. I ride on roads filled with chips and holes and it feels like very little gets to my backside. Unlike the regular tarmac which feels like it sacrifices comfort to have similar stiffness. They are set up the same, and I feel like I could just ride the s-works longer before feeling any body aches.

2. The s-works descends better than any bike I’ve ever ridden. We don’t have major mountains in NE Georgia, but have good rolling hills just outside the Appalachians. Today, I was sitting up while pedaling downhill, zipped up my jersey, looked at my gps and was riding 32 mph without hands and it never wobbled. The regular tarmac gets a little touchy north of 30 mph, not like a wobble, but at least a “let me keep a hand on here to be safe.”

3. Both are stiff, but different. The regular tarmac feels like it’s stiff enough to race but you feel the stiffness. I know when I ride that I’m getting the most out of my every pedal. The s-works climbs and sprint just effortlessly. Some of that os wheels, but when seated and pedaling at tempo, the frame just continually accelerates. Not even pushing, I had my 2nd best time on a climb I’ve done who knows how many times.

I’ll probably add in some as I ride both some more, but was pleasantly surprised at the difference between s-works and regular models.

[lavi]

Interesting observations. Thank you. That may have been my post wondering on possible differences between the carbon levels.

Maybe do a wheel and saddle swap to further eliminate variables? Please report back.

[Waldo62]

I am surprised that Spesh didn't evolve its Tarmac line over the course of three years (2015, 2016, and 2017). Both bikes are sl5.

[bthomas515]

Originally Posted by Waldo62

I am surprised that Spesh didn't evolve its Tarmac line over the course of three years (2015, 2016, and 2017). Both bikes are sl5.

I believe it was the first and last year of the sl5. 3 years per generation is about right

[bthomas515]

Originally Posted by lavi

Interesting observations. Thank you. That may have been my post wondering on possible differences between the carbon levels.

Maybe do a wheel and saddle swap to further eliminate variables? Please report back.

That’s my plan. Have a set of carbon wheels I’ll throw on the regular tarmac and test it out

[robt57]

In simple terms my observations have been the S-Works, HMX Scott and, 600-700 OCLV VS lower of same are lighter and livelier feeling/responding not just stiffer or just feel overly stiff.

Still have a SL3 S-Works 11r Tacmac. It just feels right to me. Last HMX Scott was an Addict LTD, too much stack so I let it go, but just felt right..


But 10r VS 11r I'd probably get the better deal/fit. What is one R among friends.

But 8R to 11R night and day. Never rode 9R

Lower carbon seems to not do perceivable planing at all, good stuff does... IMO

[nmrt]

appreciate the report. would love if you would swap wheels and saddle between them and let us know what you think then.

[old fat man]

Call me back when both frames are equally dressed and the bikes are not 15% different in total weight.

[eippo1]

Well crap, I have the same regular ol' Tarmac and don't feel like trading up for an S-works right now. One thing I will say about it is that I'm amazed that they have such labor intensive paint jobs on some of their regular ol' bikes.

Yes, I know that they are done with assistance etc., but it's a triple sparkle application for that Sagan replica. Also, I think the only S-works that I'd get would be the Sworks version of the same paint job. It's just that awesome.

Plus if I wanted some thing that just soaked up everything and felt lovely, I'd take out my DeSalvo with tubulars.

[bthomas515]

Originally Posted by nmrt

appreciate the report. would love if you would swap wheels and saddle between them and let us know what you think then.

I use 143 power saddles on both. I think the photo of the Sagan tarmac might still have the toupe on it but I swapped it later. The other one is just white.

[oldguy00]

Originally Posted by old fat man

Call me back when both frames are equally dressed and the bikes are not 15% different in total weight.

THIS!

Not trying to rain on your parade, but both bikes are stiff enough and same in geo that if you had -identical- parts/wheels on both, same tire pressure, exact same contact point positions, I do not believe you'd be able to tell which bike you were on if you couldn't see the logo.

Comparing the feel of a bike setup with DA, carbon wheels, etc to a bike setup with Ultegra and aluminum wheels is meaningless, honestly.

EDIT - also, are the bikes the same size, and saddle height setup the same??? Maybe its just the way the pics were taken, but the saddle looks much higher on the sworks bike.
Also, looks like you might have MTB pedals on the ultegra bike, and road pedals on the sworks?

Again, you really need to compare apples to apples....

SECOND EDIT - Just want to clarify, that I 100% believe that the bikes -feel- very different, and part of that is the weight, but that is just a feeling underneath you, the bike is gonna feel a little lighter when rocking it side to side, etc. That is real. What it won't do, is make you go forward any faster. Very easy to prove by simply putting a power meter on each bike - the same power meter, and doing some test runs. If the bikes are dressed the same, setup geo the same, and you push the same power, you won't see much if any speed difference.
Not saying you shouldn't buy the S-works, nothing wrong with having bling!!! But don't be fooled into thinking its faster because of the grade of carbon in the frame. Thats marketing.

[KonaSS]

Agree with others, unless they are dressed identically, can't really make any conclusion.

I will share my experience - I have ridden/raced for a Specialized dealer for the last 15 years. Had many different Specialized bikes, and I get a decent discount, but still lots of money out of my pocket. I sprang for the S-Works twice - on an SL5 Tarmac and an Epic mtb. They are nice bikes, but I will never spring for the S-Works again. The only difference I can tell is in the weight. I now stick to their Expert/Pro level spec, which is usually the best bargain for a high end bike.

[AngryScientist]

Are the geometries of these two bikes identical?

[R3awak3n]

This is a tough one because you knew which bike you were ridding. Not saying the s works is not better but unless there was a blind test by multiple people I think its inconclusive. Too many variables imo but if even the s works logo makes you ride faster then might be worth it (again not saying diff layouts of carbon do not give different performance but imo only I don’t buy it)

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Are the geometries of these two bikes identical?

SL5s are SL5s. Unless they are different sizes, would have to be.