Stuck adjustable cup, 1994 Chorus in AL shell

[oliver1850]

Lock ring came off with difficulty so I was anticipating a fight with the cup. Didn't want to break the pins off the cup tool (been there) so have been proceeding with caution. I was able to remove the drive side cup by clamping the wrench down with the crank arm bolt and a stack of washers - and hammering on the wrench with a 2 lb rubber hammer. Had to hammer it almost all the way out before I could turn it by hand. Plastic sleeve over the spindle was so stuck that I had to twist it inward with needle nose pliers while spraying penetrating oil in the gaps to remove it. Now have soaked the threads from both sides and rapped on the cup from both sides with a brass punch. Tried the rubber hammer on the pin wrench but didn't get too aggressive - I don't think the cup moved.

Is there another option for a tool? I think a left hand threaded bolt and nut, somewhat smaller in diameter than the spindle, appropriately sized bushings, and an impact wrench would work. A long enough right hand thread bolt with the impact wrench on the right hand side would do the same job and be easier to source. That will probably be my next attempt unless someone has a better idea.

[catchourbreath]

If you don't mind Ind destroying the cup, similar to your idea evt makes a tool that threads into itself and works the cup free.

https://www.efficientvelo.com/tools/...bb-cup-remover

[Peter P.]

Heat or cold are what you need.

Heat: Use a heat gun, which is hotter than a hair dryer. I have one for work and can confirm that. They're found at paint stores and hardware stores. But if all you can get your hands on is a hair dryer, use that but it will take longer. Apply the heat while applying your penetrant of choice. I've even read that beeswax, flowed into the threads, will work. Try from both the inside and outside of the shell.

Cold: Drop a chunk of dry ice into the BB shell and let it evaporate. Plenty of places sell it.

As a last resort, I've seen people cut out the seized cup in sections using a hacksaw, and chasing the threads afterward.

[pinkshogun]

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

[tellyho]

+1 to Sheldon tool or variation. Might also use a large EZOut in the spindle hole with an impact drill. Destructive removal might be next steps. Penetrating oil + heat gun

[Hindmost]

I once used heat cycles along with trans fluid+acetone.

[AngryScientist]

I too have used that Sheldon method, or a variation of it with my big 1/2" impact gun with good results.

With an aluminum frame, I bet some judicious application of heat would also certainly help.

[oliver1850]

Thanks for the replies. I couldn't use heat because it's a carbon frame with an aluminum shell bonded inside the carbon. My idea for a tool was essentially the same as Sheldon's but I wanted to use a longer bolt and bushings so I could use a socket that was too large in diameter to fit inside the shell. My first attempt was with a 1/2" pipe nipple inserted in a cast iron coupling which I turned down in the lathe to get a better fit in the cup. That setup failed when the cast coupling split and collapsed. I was pretty worried at that point because it took a lot of torque before the coupling failed, and the cup hadn't moved. I then found a piece of 1" diameter 1/4" wall tubing, drilled it out to 5/8", and beveled the end to fit the cup. It took a lot of hammering with the impact (rated at 1200 ft-lbs but the rating could be optimistic) and the cup eventually turned out. After cleaning up the threads and getting frustrated with turning the Campagnolo adjustable cup in and out with the awkward to use Park tool, I decided to try another cup. I'm not sure what brand it was but it threaded all the way past where it would need to be installed without using a tool. After removing it the Campagnolo cup was still a tight fit. I'm going to try a later cartridge bearing Campagnolo BB tomorrow and see if there's any difference in the fit. Pics of the tool with and without cup. I'd be happy to lend it if anyone runs into the same problem.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

with my big 1/2" impact gun

Originally Posted by oliver1850

hammering with the impact (rated at 1200 ft-lbs but the rating could be optimistic)

Do you guys have / use air or battery-powered impact wrenches?

Do you think that cordless is good enough now compared to air?

In my case I would think that it's a heck of a lot easier to grab the cordless wrench (if I get one it would probably be Milwaukee M18, since that's what I'm already using for my other cordless tools) compared to dragging out the somewhat portable pancake compressor.

Thanks

[glepore]

Wow. I'm amazed that the bond of the shell didn't give...

As to the battery impact question, yeah, for the most part they have as much torque as an air impact, particularly if you're not using hi flow air connectors.

[carpediemracing]

Originally Posted by Louis

Do you guys have / use air or battery-powered impact wrenches?

Do you think that cordless is good enough now compared to air?

Thanks

The auto techs I used to work with (and still visit) have gone almost exclusively to battery powered tools. They use them all day on all sorts of stuff that is super tight.

Same disadvantage to a corded tool, at least for a tool that's used a lot. Air tools have a natural cooling system. Any electrical one doesn't so they get hot. And batteries eventually need charging.

Exceptions include air hammer, grinders... Not sure what else, come to think of it. The hammers don't get used as often, and the grinders get used for a relatively long time (so the air cooling is a plus). And the guys already have them. It's sexy to use a cordless impact wrench. Air hammer, it's just "git the job done".

[oliver1850]

I tried all three types on this job: air, corded, cordless. The cordless is the one that finally moved the cup.

I was worried about breaking the aluminum insert loose but it held.

[bikinchris]

I had a steel bike that had a stuck adjustable cup a while back. This is actually a better solution than the Sheldon Brown idea. I didn't have the time and just reassembled that bike with new grease and ball bearings. I told them next time; I was going to get that cup out and fix it permanently.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by Louis

Do you guys have / use air or battery-powered impact wrenches?

Do you think that cordless is good enough now compared to air?

In my case I would think that it's a heck of a lot easier to grab the cordless wrench (if I get one it would probably be Milwaukee M18, since that's what I'm already using for my other cordless tools) compared to dragging out the somewhat portable pancake compressor.

Thanks

Yes. I've been using a Mikita (or Milwaukee...can't remember) for autocross for more than 20 years. Makes summer/winter changeover quite painless, and when I run across a stuck bolt, voila!

[oliver1850]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

I had a steel bike that had a stuck adjustable cup a while back. This is actually a better solution than the Sheldon Brown idea. I didn't have the time and just reassembled that bike with new grease and ball bearings. I told them next time; I was going to get that cup out and fix it permanently.

I would have done that but the cup was adjusted too tight. Could have tried to shim the fixed cup but it seemed unlikely that I would come up with the exact thickness shim.

I replaced the bottom bracket with a Centaur because the adjustable cup threaded right in without a wrench. Kind of hated to do that because the loose ball Chorus was original to the bike and in perfect condition.