There is no reason to buy a carbon bike

[mstateglfr]

Well I actually read the article.
As expected, it sucked.

But I did chuckle and agree with 1 comment- his criticism of a Pinarello Dogma and his observation that it looks like it's melting.

[Mark Davison]

Here’s an informational article from GCN that indicates bike snob is basically correct:

https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com...-carbon-frame#

ad hominem attacks against Eben Weiss do not change the basic fact that carbon fiber laminate frames are subject to damage in situations that would not damage a heavier steel frame.

“steel is real” is one of those meaningless slogans. “Properly engineered steel bicycles frames are more resilient than carbon fiber racing frames” is more accurate, and falsifiable.

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by Mark Davison

Here’s an informational article from GCN that indicates bike snob is basically correct:

https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com...-carbon-frame#

ad hominem attacks against Eben Weiss do not change the basic fact that carbon fiber laminate frames are subject to damage in situations that would not damage a heavier steel frame.

“steel is real” is one of those meaningless slogans. “Properly engineered steel bicycles frames are more resilient than carbon fiber racing frames” is more accurate, and falsifiable.

Thanks for bringing in the hard hitting facts of GCN. Frame materials all have their pluses and minuses. We can discuss those forever (and have). But most very experienced riders here already know them. This is not a debate to be had.

And if we want to believe in his reasoning here. Let's go further. There is no good reason to buy Record components. Or even Chorus. These are groups designed for racing. Expensive and unnecessary for your riding. You ham and eggers need Tiagra. You do. You are incapable of getting the performance out of a better group.

Further....you ask? There is no good reason for most of you to buy a road racing bicycle, out of any material. These are bikes designed for ROAD RACING. Ask yourself, when is the last time you have done a race? I have seen the contortions that some of you do to make these bikes fit. The difference between a Euro pro and you is massive. In fact, your riding style is much closer to the mom on the bike path than the Euro pro. So why doesn't your bike look more like hers?

I don't actually believe either of these, but if you want to jump on this slope, it might be slippery.

[Baron Blubba]

Durability in case of accidents is not a reason why someone ‘doesn’t need a carbon bike.’ Maybe why some don’t want one, but a frame’s accident survival probability has never factored into any of my bike purchases.

(My carbon bikes have survived all my accidents much better than I did.)

Originally Posted by Mark Davison

Here’s an informational article from GCN that indicates bike snob is basically correct:

https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com...-carbon-frame#

ad hominem attacks against Eben Weiss do not change the basic fact that carbon fiber laminate frames are subject to damage in situations that would not damage a heavier steel frame.

“steel is real” is one of those meaningless slogans. “Properly engineered steel bicycles frames are more resilient than carbon fiber racing frames” is more accurate, and falsifiable.

[NHAero]

I am old and slow, and recently acquired my first ever carbon fiber racing bike. It is really fun and is a terrific bike. So as to not fool others into thinking I am a Euro pro (since I am quite similarly sized to Tadej and Jonas, albeit with 1/3 the watts) I have equipped it with a +17 stem, small frame bag, and a Spurcycle bell. Thus far I have not been asked to sign any jerseys, so I think this is working.

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by NHAero

I am old and slow, and recently acquired my first ever carbon fiber racing bike. It is really fun and is a terrific bike. So as to not fool others into thinking I am a Euro pro.... (

To be clear, all my comments were tongue in cheek and worth the same as that stupid click bait article ($0.00). Glad you like your new bike. The world has room for all kinds of bikes.

[rothwem]

Originally Posted by KonaSS

And if we want to believe in his reasoning here. Let's go further. There is no good reason to buy Record components. Or even Chorus. These are groups designed for racing. Expensive and unnecessary for your riding. You ham and eggers need Tiagra. You do. You are incapable of getting the performance out of a better group.

So, funny enough, with the recent explosion in bike stuff prices, I’ve started to investigate the lower end groups, and found that they’re actually really good. SRAM Apex mechanical is seriously a fantastic group. Apex hydraulic sucks because is SRAM and all SRAM hydraulics suck, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with the price of the groupset. It’s really tough to tell an Apex group from a Force group.

So yeah, maybe this logic is right.

[prototoast]

My personal view, and this applies to every publication from Outside to the New York times, is that no one should be an opinion writer for more than 10 years.* Rather than than increased wisdom with experience, longtime opinion writers tend to have fewer practical insights and tend to dig deeper and deeper into crazytown in order to churn out novel content. That's clearly the case for Bike Snob--he's already exhausted all his novel and interesting (even if controversial) opinions, but can't just walk away.

My other rules for opinion writing is every article should show clear evidence the author has to research something, and that readers should learn something even if they disagree with the thesis. This article fails on both accounts.

Outside is not alone in poor opinion quality, but this article never needed to be published.

*I will make an exception for Dave Barry.

[Mark Davison]

The logic is not twisted.

If you examine the use case of most recreational riders that I have trained, bikes that closely mimic current professional road racing bikes are not a good fit.

It makes more sense for most purchasers (who are not keen bike enthusiasts, and want to own one or two bikes at most, and not spend much time on them) to have a versatile bike.

The bike is going to be ridden for recreation, for commuting, for errands, taken on trips on airlines and trains, put on top of cars, ridden in all weather. It may be ridden on unpaved as well as paved roads. It needs to carry luggage.

So the current ideal bike for most purchasers is an all road bike with eyelets for racks. However, given that the bikes will be used around town and parked, unattended, at public bike racks, the ideal bike is definitely not made of carbon fiber laminate. So, to take a specific example, if you want a Specialized Diverge, the best choice is to buy the low end aluminum frame version (which comes with 2 x 8 Shiimano Claris) and upgrade the parts if you want.

To say that all materials have their problems is misleading. Carbon fiber laminate has the unique problem of being subject to serious damage that can only be inspected by ultrasound. It is not a good general purpose consumer solution.

The bike industry likes to sell lots of different kind of bikes. If you are a bike enthusiast and can afford a commuter bike, a mountain bike, an all-road bike, and a facsimile racing bike (not quite as light as what the pros use), then a carbon fiber laminate racing bike makes perfect sense. For general use, no.

[charliedid]

In many cases, there is no reason to buy a bike at all.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

Well I actually read the article.
As expected, it sucked.

But I did chuckle and agree with 1 comment- his criticism of a Pinarello Dogma and his observation that it looks like it's melting.

I think the "melting bike" award goes to the De Rosa Tango.

[Mark Davison]

I keep saying carbon fiber laminate (CFL) for a reason. The fiber in CFL is an industrial good, made under strict quality control, as are pre-impregnated sheets. But the laminate that is put together to make a bike frame may (or may not) be layed out by hand, and subject to the lapses in quality that any hand process can entail. In particular, poor procedure can lead to internal voids which can compromise the strenght of a part.

I once chatted with two Boeing engineers about carbon fiber materials, and they very strenuously pointed out that the lamination in Boeing parts is done by machines under very careful quality control, and then the resulting parts are all ultrasonically inspected. To them the CFLs in Boeing aircraft were totally different than the CFLs in commercial bicycles.

[Mark Davison]

And please note that NHAero’s main travel bike has a titanium frame, not CFL. I don’t think this is accidental.

Now that I’ve decided I really like the build I have on my Specialized Diverge (with CFL frame) I’m getting a titanium frame made with the similar geometry and I’ll just move the parts over. Then I can park it at the local cafe without fretting.

That’s it: CFL makes me fret.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm not so sure that mentioning Boeing products to bolster that argument is a good idea these days.

[Mark Davison]

Does failure to properly fasten door plugs necessarily tell you that their CFL is bad?