Friday Night Dreaming - Where do you buy a condo to rent out now and retire to later?

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by sitzmark

To be more specific - Pico is owned by Powdr (as is Killington) which is one of a handful of mega-sort companies. Vail Resorts is the 800lb gorilla. What’s left/reconstituted of Intra-west is under the umbrella of Alterra (Chicago Crown family money and owners of Aspen) is moving aggressively to challenge VR. Powder, Boyne, and a couple of other smaller organizations are fighting for a toe hold in a very competitive space.

The caveat with NE mountain resort property is that rental opportunity is either long term seasonal or primarily weekend only. Leaf peeping season can generate extended stays. For winter it isn’t significantly more expensive than an airline ticket to spend a week on the slopes in the West where the chance for better snow conditions has historically been better.

I know. Affordable airline travel is killing the NE ski industry, slowly, much like better highways and air travel killed the Catskills. You forgot the Euro skiing market, too, which is as affordable to an I95 resident as the Rockies, just a bit harder to get to. But, the OP is looking for something that just doesnt exist in his price range in any "rentable" market I can think of. I know, I'm in the same boat, a little further down the line, since I'm not working anymore, and, trust me, if I could find a 250,000 two bedroom in a prime rentable location near good biking and skiing, I'd be there. You can pretty much double that figure, to start, in any decent location in Colorado, and furgetabout Califiornia. SLC is reasonable, since, well, it's a city with an ever growing housing stock, but, I'd rather get a chronic ailment than live there.
I thought the world of vacation RE was going to be my oyster in 08 when the crash happened, but, nope, the market is much more expensive a decade out. The top ten percent, as many know, did and are doing quite well, and you see that in record numbers at ski areas out west. I'm so happy that AirB&B exists to level the playing field a bit for schmucks like me.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by fkelly

I'm 72 and happily retired. Been through several "second" homes and would never consider it again. Run a spreadsheet conservatively considering all factors and you can never justify it unless you want to get into very ACTIVE property management taking up a LOT of your time. Taxes, repairs, home owner or condominium association feels, just having yard work taken care of, tenants destroying things or just ignoring small problems until they morph into big ones (e.g., mold) ... all come into play. Just the hassle of filling out tax forms for rental properties ...

250k invested now, even very conservatively in a CD at 2.5%, will return $6250 per year which will rent you a Winter place for over a month in a warm weather location and pay to ship your bike out there.

This.

I'm starting to shop around for an apartment close to Siena in Tuscany for a month in the fall. 1200-1600 is very possible for something nice with biking out the door. Easy. Imagine the hassle of owning that.

[djg]

Originally Posted by sitzmark

...

The caveat with NE mountain resort property is that rental opportunity is either long term seasonal or primarily weekend only. Leaf peeping season can generate extended stays. For winter it isn’t significantly more expensive than an airline ticket to spend a week on the slopes in the West where the chance for better snow conditions has historically been better.

Thread drift, but yeah. I grew up skiing in the Northeast -- upstate, Addies, and Vt, and went to college in NH. That's where I learned to love skiing. I live in the mid-Atlantic now but I haven't been back to New England to ski in this century. Local skiing means southern PA or maybe WV -- mostly day-trips -- and I take at least one trip out west a year -- typically to Utah. That "chance for better snow conditions has historically been better" seems a bit of an understatement when we're talking Alta vs. Killington -- I mean, yeah, it's possible to have a bad day at Alta and a great day at Killington, but . . . seriously. I can grab a morning non-stop from DCA and be on the ground in SLC by 10 am -- then it's 45 minutes to the mountain.

[joosttx]

Have you looked at The Dalles, Or. on the Columbia River. Great quiet road riding through apple orchards, and at the foot of Mt Hood.

[CNY rider]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Pico is owned by Killington, and it's right around the corner, anyway.

I’m aware of that.
And from what I’ve seen at Pico I would not be surprised at all to wake up one morning and hear they were ceasing operations there.
I would not make a 20 year bet on Pico.

[Mr. Pink]

Well, the only thing you should make a twenty year bet on is a conservative mix of stocks and bonds. The stock market has never seen a twenty year drop substained. Everything else is off the table. I mean, think back twenty years. Remember a time when real estate could never go down? I worked for a major corporation, thousands of employees, well respected, for over twenty years, and today, it technically doesn't exist anymore. You can never predict the future.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Well, the only thing you should make a twenty year bet on is a conservative mix of stocks and bonds. The stock market has never seen a twenty year drop substained. Everything else is off the table. I mean, think back twenty years. Remember a time when real estate could never go down? I worked for a major corporation, thousands of employees, well respected, for over twenty years, and today, it technically doesn't exist anymore. You can never predict the future.

qualifier: the U.S. stock market hasn't

as pointed elsewhere recently here, hell if one invested in the Nikkei in the mid 80's

[Tickdoc]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

This.

I'm starting to shop around for an apartment close to Siena in Tuscany for a month in the fall. 1200-1600 is very possible for something nice with biking out the door. Easy. Imagine the hassle of owning that.

And you get to try a new one each time...new restaurants and local flavor.

Great thread, btw.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by echappist

qualifier: the U.S. stock market hasn't

as pointed elsewhere recently here, hell if one invested in the Nikkei in the mid 80's

Well, I can tell you, if the US equity market sees that kind of downturn , then the last place you would want your money is the second home market. You're going to have many more problems than wondering about your next vacation.

[AngryScientist]

I havent read through the whole thread, but i'm not for the idea of buying someplace now with the idea of retiring there in many years.

so much of life is unpredictable. you may have no interest in cycling and be a cross country ski nut in 20 years, or a classic car guy, or a golfer or....

my plan is going to be to stock up on more liquid investments, wait and see.

having been through a bunch of crap lately, i think my real priorities in retirement are going to be close to family and good medical care.

[zap]

Every 6 months or so we think about purchasing a second place. But we like going to so many different places that we nix the idea.

Note valuations are high in the US and condo's get crushed during a recession.

Also best to decide where you want to retire when you reach that stage in life, not before.

[Ralph]

As you get older....and when you get old......you might think differently about where you want to live. I want warm, not cold.

I had my career in Central Florida (an area few tourists actually see), and wife and I spent many trips exploring other places in USA we might want to live in retirement. We spent weeks in the NW and especially liked the San Juan Islands.

We spent a month in Moab....in spring and again in Fall, countless months in most of the front range towns of Colorado. Then a month in Frisco and Breckenridge area. Months in Western N Carolina (own acreage there now), and New England.....especially Martha's Vineyard, Booth Bay, and Around Acadia National park. A month in Cour De Alene, even some time around Spokane.

And we did this in all the seasons.

We stayed places long enough to realize that visiting some place and playing, not the same as living there. Lots of other things to consider. Medical care being one. Here....no specialty is more than a 20 minute drive away.

So we stayed in our home in Florida. Sure....4-5 months of year it's hot, and sometimes humid. But it doesn't keep me off the bike. Frankly....I didn't even notice the 80-85 degree temps on my 35 mile ride this AM. Done by 10:30. In pool by 11. And no place I have ever been has more cycling than here....of all types, year around.

In retirement, and as I age, (78 now), there is no way I would trade Florida's (or Texas, or Arizona, or New Mexico, etc) heat for any place with a long winter. I want to be outside and active....and not breaking bones on a ski slope.

And many of these warmer clime areas have low real estate prices. $300,000 will buy you a nice home in a nice neighborhood close to all the trails and cycling hubs around here. Imagine same in other warm places. I would add S California....but it's expensive.

And BTW...we still like visiting most of those places for a week or so at a time, just don't want to live there.

[19wisconsin64]

One of the best places to live in America...Madison, WI. You mentioned retirement, so I'm assuming you want good medical and lots of local interesting things to do. You mentioned "rent out", so that's real estate investing, which is location. You mentioned cycling, they have that too.

Spend a week there in the fall or summer or winter or whenever. It's great, but I'm totally biased having lived there! It's on my short-list of places to retire to. Great thread!

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by Ralph

As you get older....and when you get old......you might think differently about where you want to live. I want warm, not cold.

I had my career in Central Florida (an area few tourists actually see), and wife and I spent many trips exploring other places in USA we might want to live in retirement. We spent weeks in the NW and especially liked the San Juan Islands.

We spent a month in Moab....in spring and again in Fall, countless months in most of the front range towns of Colorado. Then a month in Frisco and Breckenridge area. Months in Western N Carolina (own acreage there now), and New England.....especially Martha's Vineyard, Booth Bay, and Around Acadia National park. A month in Cour De Alene, even some time around Spokane.

And we did this in all the seasons.

We stayed places long enough to realize that visiting some place and playing, not the same as living there. Lots of other things to consider. Medical care being one. Here....no specialty is more than a 20 minute drive away.

So we stayed in our home in Florida. Sure....4-5 months of year it's hot, and sometimes humid. But it doesn't keep me off the bike. Frankly....I didn't even notice the 80-85 degree temps on my 35 mile ride this AM. Done by 10:30. In pool by 11. And no place I have ever been has more cycling than here....of all types, year around.

In retirement, and as I age, (78 now), there is no way I would trade Florida's (or Texas, or Arizona, or New Mexico, etc) heat for any place with a long winter. I want to be outside and active....and not breaking bones on a ski slope.

And many of these warmer clime areas have low real estate prices. $300,000 will buy you a nice home in a nice neighborhood close to all the trails and cycling hubs around here. Imagine same in other warm places. I would add S California....but it's expensive.

And BTW...we still like visiting most of those places for a week or so at a time, just don't want to live there.

SoCal isn't as expensive if a person wants to live inland rather than near the coast. The dry Summer heat there is easier for many folks than the heat plus humidity in the Southeast. People who live in Palm Springs, Palm Desert, etc. live like Ralph does in the Summer. They get up early, play tennis, golf, etc. then hit the pool and/or inside where it's air-conditioned. By late afternoon it's probably quite tolerable on the patio and evenings are lovely-----if you can stay awake. Of course the tax deal for retirees is better in Florida.

[Ralph]

Yes....I always get a kick out of tourists who go to Disneyland at Orlando in summer.....and complain about how hot and humid it is up in the day....and how they would never live around here.....and I'm thinking...."you fool....what are you doing out in this heat and humidity". Us locals would never do that.

And Ken brings up some good points. Taxes are a big consideration. No state income taxes in Florida, WA, Texas, Tenn, Wy, NH (I think), and one other I believe. Saves me about 6% of my taxable income. And according to my retired baby brother (a retired Fed Gov worker), some state don't tax Gov pensions.

Don't know about other states....but around here a decent house/condo in a decent area (but not great) goes for about $160 per ft. Pool and 3 car garage adds. RE taxes w/b about $3500/year on 2000 sq ft home, (some tax savings for long term residents owner occupied), and home owners insurance probably in the $2500/year range. We have hurricanes and ground collapse risks....other states have different risks.

All things you have to consider.