650b wheels - is this still a thing?

[Jaybee]

If anything, I'd say there is more hype/buy-in on 650b than there was a couple years ago. No one is releasing a bike these days without making sure it's at least 650x47 compatible, and moreover, everyone includes their max 650b clearance in their marketing copy. I can recall a couple years back when you either had to test fit or guess for a lot of major manufacturers.

Personally, I love the ability to get puffy tires without crazy wagon wheel effects on a drop bar bike - especially useful if the bike is leaving manicured gravel on the regular. I also love that 3 different wheelsets (650 x 2.0 knobbies, 700 x 40 lightly treaded, 700x32 slick) essentially turns one bike into 3.

[tony_mm]

Which 2' tires do you use?

[Jaybee]

Bontrager XR0 in the rear, XR1 in the front.

The XR0 is crazy light and thin, and it scares me. I haven't sliced it up yet, but I'm sure it's coming.

[tony_mm]

Yep the XR0 looks very thin indeed.

Both tires in 2.0"?
Did you try the XR0 in the front?

[CSTRider]

My 2019 Specialized Diverge Comp handles great with the stock 700x38C Sawtooth tires it came with, but was absolutely transformed when i tried 650Bx47 WTB Horizons on it. I have no idea why Specialized doesn't offer the bike with 650B wheels, especially in frame size 54 and below.

[TheseGoTo11]

Originally Posted by CSTRider

I have no idea why Specialized doesn't offer the bike with 650B wheels, especially in frame size 54 and below.

Totally agree with that sentiment. Designing smaller frames around 650b makes sense to me. Volume without geometry compromises from a larger circumference 700c tire.

[PeregrineA1]

Originally Posted by sparky33

Which 700x50 do you have there?

Maxxis Re-Fuse


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[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by tony_mm

Yep the XR0 looks very thin indeed.

Both tires in 2.0"?
Did you try the XR0 in the front?

I haven't tried the XR0 in the front. I'd prefer the Xr1 in the back too, but the side knobs are just big enough to rub under hard cornering.

Xr0 is 2.0, Xr1 was 2.0, then I moved up to 2.2

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

My only low trail bike was my elephant and I thought it handled pretty well. Never had a problem taking my hands of the handlebars.

I have an NFE too, but notice it's harder to ride in a straight line with my hands off the bars. And while it's possible, I don't have the confidence to take off a jacket as I would on a a traditional race bike from the 80s. On a traditional bike, I can make turns without my hands no problem, but not on the Elephant.

Also, when making sharp turns (like a quick right turn), I feel that when I lean the bike, the front wheel wants to turn towards the direction of the turn instead of tracking straight, which causes instability. Folks say they can rail turns on low trail bikes, but that hasn't been my experience.

Few caveats: I'm running 650b x 48mm tires. Some folks say that 48mm has too much grip, which causes this phenomena. I'm also not the most fastidious with tire pressure.

[belopsky]

I feel the same. My Hunter gatherer rides fine with or without load. My other low trail isn't for me, hence me selling.

[tony_mm]

Originally Posted by CSTRider

My 2019 Specialized Diverge Comp handles great with the stock 700x38C Sawtooth tires it came with, but was absolutely transformed when i tried 650Bx47 WTB Horizons on it. I have no idea why Specialized doesn't offer the bike with 650B wheels, especially in frame size 54 and below.

In which way was it transformed with 650B?

[CSTRider]

Originally Posted by tony_mm

In which way was it transformed with 650B?

Off-road, i notice much more "float", comfort and traction (especially in loose dirt, sand and gravel) due to lower tire pressures (27psi front, 30 rear); on the road, ride is likewise much smoother and more confident. Descending mountain roads on smooth 47mm WTB Horizons with Ultegra hydraulic discs is an absolute hoot.

Disadvantages - speed takes a small hit, but in my opinion, totally worth the benefits in comfort and handling.

[Road Fan]

Originally Posted by HTupolev

The whole point of going to 650b is that you can use a wider and more compliant tire without adding weight or significantly slowing handling. The question isn't 48mm 650b tires versus 23mm 700c tires, it's 48mm 650b tires versus, say, 42mm 700c tires. For situations where a hugely fat 650b road tire has benefits, a lightweight aero skinny-tire 700c setup isn't going to be appropriate.

I'm not sure that 650b lost steam, so much as gravel bikes have continued to grow into the mainstream as a market segment and the big manufacturers barely ever moved away from 700c in the first place.

Plus back in the double-noughts when the 650b road hype machine was just storyboarding the hype, the main proponent (Thinking Jan Heine but it was others as well) were talking about randonneuring mainly on 650x42b and 38b, exploring an antique French style along with a bunch of other antique French ideas. That thread of 650 is still going on, with lightweight, compliant smooth-tread tires, kinda like big, soft donuts. Gravel was not the point, but the increased smoothness of this style of tire/wheel probably attracted many grey haired roadies to the pebbly side. The industrial-scale growth we see on the "commercial" gravel side is one thing, but the French-style and faux-French style was based on a resurgence of randonneuring.

So for me 650b is alive and kicking.

So I have a low-trail 650b and a 700c. I'm working on prepping the 650 for sale, but I owe her a few good dates to make sure she knows she isn't being dumped due to pure neglect. I may buy another one that has tubing a step stiffer. I think the one I have, with .7 .4 .7 standard diameters, is too flexy and does not show much life. Where for me the older styled .8 .5 .8 Reynolds tubesets and .9 .6 .9 of the Columbus SL and SLX are nearly always bright and lively, while remaining comfortable. This is even with fatter 32 mm 700c and 35# light touring weights, as well as a 20# steel road bike with feathery 21 mm tubulars.

[HTupolev]

Originally Posted by Road Fan

That thread of 650 is still going on, with lightweight, compliant smooth-tread tires, kinda like big, soft donuts. Gravel was not the point, but the increased smoothness of this style of tire/wheel probably attracted many grey haired roadies to the pebbly side. The industrial-scale growth we see on the "commercial" gravel side is one thing, but the French-style and faux-French style was based on a resurgence of randonneuring.

Gravel was the point to a large degree. The high mountain roads of western Europe mostly weren't paved back in the day. That's why Jan Heine's affinity for the old French bikes is easy to understand: there are sprawling networks of unpaved (and sometimes quite rough) national forest roads in the Pacific Northwest, with mostly paved roads in the flat-to-hilly low lands, resulting in very similar demands on bike design.

It's not just the tires. The demands of mountain gravel riding are why the mid-20th-century randonneuring community at the time also drove considerable development in brake design, notably with cantilever brakes and later dual-pivot calipers. And it's why those bikes often featured cranksets with very small BCDs, like the 1934 Stronglight 70mm 3-bolt bolt circle that was soon adopted into the old Rene Herse cranks (and recently revived as the new Rene Herse cranks).

Nobody was calling those old randonneuring bikes "gravel bikes" back in the day because "gravel bike" hadn't been invented as a marketing term yet. But they were gravel bikes.
The 42mm 650b tires that Jan Heine sells are named after an unpaved mountain pass. The intent has always been that they'd be competent for mixed-surface use.

[MrCannonCam]

Originally Posted by arik

Felt like last year everyone was 650b road plus crazy with the Cannondale slate, new Compass tires being released every week, and folks scheming on converting their 700c road bikes. This year the hype machine seems to be calming down. Was allroad 650b a fad? Maybe the extra weight, aero drag, and slower handling wasn't worth the claimed advantages of comfort and cornering?

I have a Slate and it's sick. Handles crazy good, is super comfortable, very versatile. Maybe doesn't roll as fast as most 700c but as a gravel bike it's anything I could ask for. I've dumped most of my fleet and run my Slate and a disc road (race) bike that's it anymore. I have a 700 wheelset for it too for winter road riding when the road bike stays on the trainer. Run 650x42 Donnelly tires with a center slick and side knobbies it's the best bike I've ever owned.