OT: NBA season has begun! [Potential Spoilers]

[Aaron O]

Lonzo looks like he has some notable short comings as an NBA player, but...we'll see. He's very young. That said, he doesn't seem to be a top flight athlete, and that just limits what he can do. I think he can be a quality, productive NBA player...but the hype of him being a "that guy" is probably not going to pan out.

As far as the "poor Lonzo, he's a victim of his dad" stuff, stop it. He's an adult. He's fully capable of saying dad...STFU (like Okafor did with his dad). He's on the hook for this non-sense, as much as he wants to both cash in on it while separating himself from it. I think it's telling that his dad seems to think success is measured by social media views rather than game stats.

Personally I can't stand the Lonzo story and hope he bombs.

<---hater.

(there's also no reason to be talking about Lonzo while Ben Simmons is playing)

[Jaybee]

Lonzo will be OK. The passing and game control is already solid, especially for his age. There have been successful PG's who weren't dynamic athletes but still put the ball in the right spots at the right time. Jumper is awkward, but his college %'s were fine, so maybe he will get there. The counterargument is that his form is awkward, low release, lots of arm which doesn't lend itself well to stepping out to 23'.

The Andre Miller comparison is an apt one, I think. You probably are hoping for a something a little more dynamic than that at pick #2, but Miller had a pretty long, successful career being an "old man at the YMCA".

[myth_jimmy]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

They're old, they can't defend, and there's no real answers to solve those two problems.

DWade sniping at the starters is pretty fantastic though. I love early season NBA intra-team drama.

The drama is great!

Channing Frye being drunk in a cab at 5am after losing to the Nets and complaining to the driver was my favorite.

[Aaron O]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Lonzo will be OK. The passing and game control is already solid, especially for his age. There have been successful PG's who weren't dynamic athletes but still put the ball in the right spots at the right time. Jumper is awkward, but his college %'s were fine, so maybe he will get there. The counterargument is that his form is awkward, low release, lots of arm which doesn't lend itself well to stepping out to 23'.

The Andre Miller comparison is an apt one, I think. You probably are hoping for a something a little more dynamic than that at pick #2, but Miller had a pretty long, successful career being an "old man at the YMCA".

I think he'll be better than OK when all is said and done...I think he'll be a GOOD player. I don't think he's going to be a great one.

So let's talk about one that is...Ben Simmons. His defense has been fantastic, his vision is at least as good as Balls and his speed/size makes him a mis-match that's going to exploit teams for a lot of points. He's also CRASHING the glass.

This is why I can't stand Ball...he's THE TOPIC of conversation and he doesn't deserve to be.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by Aaron O

I think he'll be better than OK when all is said and done...I think he'll be a GOOD player. I don't think he's going to be a great one.

So let's talk about one that is...Ben Simmons. His defense has been fantastic, his vision is at least as good as Balls and his speed/size makes him a mis-match that's going to exploit teams for a lot of points. He's also CRASHING the glass.

This is why I can't stand Ball...he's THE TOPIC of conversation and he doesn't deserve to be.

Concur, Simmons is going to be amazing. Even more so if he can develop anything approaching a reliable stroke from the FT line and midrange. Three point range seems like a big ask at this point.

Seems like the league may be moving toward incredibly tall, long athletic guys with multiple skill sets? Giannis and Simmons and even Aaron Gordon is looking a little feisty off the dribble this year; LeBron,and Griffin are kind of the first iterations of this - offensive creation from the 3/4 spot. I look forward to a league full of Giannis/Simmons clones, and I hope there are some tall skinny kids in middle school who are working on their handles as well as their drop-steps and screens.

[myth_jimmy]

Also watch AD and Boogie...they're both killers off the dribble for their size.

[Aaron O]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Concur, Simmons is going to be amazing. Even more so if he can develop anything approaching a reliable stroke from the FT line and midrange. Three point range seems like a big ask at this point.

Seems like the league may be moving toward incredibly tall, long athletic guys with multiple skill sets? Giannis and Simmons and even Aaron Gordon is looking a little feisty off the dribble this year; LeBron,and Griffin are kind of the first iterations of this - offensive creation from the 3/4 spot. I look forward to a league full of Giannis/Simmons clones, and I hope there are some tall skinny kids in middle school who are working on their handles as well as their drop-steps and screens.

Agree all around...this is the future. What's the way to beat a small ball league? Big guys with the skills of their smaller opponents.

I am a little annoyed about Simmons FT % when he had all last year to work on it...and with how often he's going to be at the line, that's one area of his game that needs improvement. We're just starting to see his 12-15 drop.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Lonzo will be OK. The passing and game control is already solid, especially for his age. There have been successful PG's who weren't dynamic athletes but still put the ball in the right spots at the right time. Jumper is awkward, but his college %'s were fine, so maybe he will get there. The counterargument is that his form is awkward, low release, lots of arm which doesn't lend itself well to stepping out to 23'.

The Andre Miller comparison is an apt one, I think. You probably are hoping for a something a little more dynamic than that at pick #2, but Miller had a pretty long, successful career being an "old man at the YMCA".

Sure, but young Andre Miller was pretty athletic and dynamic. Lonzo plays like 36 year old Andre at 19. Including the (lack of) footspeed.

I can't tell if that means his game will be ageless, or it's only going to look more glacial as time passes.

The court vision is there, but I don't ever see him, say, blocking a Dirk dunk at the rim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCm3cETMol0

I dunno if that shot is ever fixable. Ye Gods.

[Aaron O]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Sure, but young Andre Miller was pretty athletic and dynamic. Lonzo plays like 36 year old Andre at 19. Including the (lack of) footspeed.

I can't tell if that means his game will be ageless, or it's only going to look more glacial as time passes.

The court vision is there, but I don't ever see him, say, blocking a Dirk dunk at the rim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCm3cETMol0

I dunno if that shot is ever fixable. Ye Gods.

I think it will improve at any rate.

I don't pretend to be a Laker expert, but a guy like Ball needs to play with a shooter(s), and I don't think the Lakers really have sharp shooters.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Sure, but young Andre Miller was pretty athletic and dynamic. Lonzo plays like 36 year old Andre at 19. Including the (lack of) footspeed.

I can't tell if that means his game will be ageless, or it's only going to look more glacial as time passes.

The court vision is there, but I don't ever see him, say, blocking a Dirk dunk at the rim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCm3cETMol0

I dunno if that shot is ever fixable. Ye Gods.

Yeah, maybe he will never get there.
The jumper was pretty accurate, even if it was ugly in college, and other players have taught themselves to shoot over the course of their careers, even entirely remaking their form. Overcoming 15 years of muscle memory isn't easy, but it's not impossible. No one would have picked Jason Kidd to be top-5 in career 3 pt makes when he came out of Cal. (Note: he's currently 8th all time, and Steph will catch him within a couple weeks).

All of this Lonzo defense (and yes, too much of this thread is devoted to him already) to say I would've rather had Fox and Dennis Smith Jr. at his position, and probably Markannen and Tatum if we aren't worrying about position/fit.

[Aaron O]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Yeah, maybe he will never get there.
The jumper was pretty accurate, even if it was ugly in college, and other players have taught themselves to shoot over the course of their careers, even entirely remaking their form. Overcoming 15 years of muscle memory isn't easy, but it's not impossible. No one would have picked Jason Kidd to be top-5 in career 3 pt makes when he came out of Cal. (Note: he's currently 8th all time, and Steph will catch him within a couple weeks).

All of this Lonzo defense (and yes, too much of this thread is devoted to him already) to say I would've rather had Fox and Dennis Smith Jr. at his position, and probably Markannen and Tatum if we aren't worrying about position/fit.

I thought he was about the 4th - 5th best PG in that draft on potential.

Tatum has been so much better than I would have thought...I saw him as a smaller Okafor.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Yeah, maybe he will never get there.
The jumper was pretty accurate, even if it was ugly in college, and other players have taught themselves to shoot over the course of their careers, even entirely remaking their form. Overcoming 15 years of muscle memory isn't easy, but it's not impossible. No one would have picked Jason Kidd to be top-5 in career 3 pt makes when he came out of Cal. (Note: he's currently 8th all time, and Steph will catch him within a couple weeks).

All of this Lonzo defense (and yes, too much of this thread is devoted to him already) to say I would've rather had Fox and Dennis Smith Jr. at his position, and probably Markannen and Tatum if we aren't worrying about position/fit.

I have no clue why the Knicks passed on Smith Jr for the weird French kid. I was watching the draft with a buddy, a Knicks fan, and immediately when to YouTube to see videos. It was not encouraging.

Meanwhile Smith Jr was busy being a terror at NC State, winning at Dook and being a general thorn in the side of the ACC schedule.

[Aaron O]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

I have no clue why the Knicks passed on Smith Jr for the weird French kid. I was watching the draft with a buddy, a Knicks fan, and immediately when to YouTube to see videos. It was not encouraging.

Meanwhile Smith Jr was busy being a terror at NC State, winning at Dook and being a general thorn in the side of the ACC schedule.

There were/are health concerns on DSJ...I think attitude as well. I agree...I thought it was pretty silly to pass on him, but Frank N supposedly has a lot of promise.

[myth_jimmy]

Frankie Smokes has looked ok so far!

And these kids are all so young, it's hard to really know much more than whatever we're fed by scouts.

It seems to me that this year's rookie class is doing great, but also there's so much saturation coverage that I may be noise and not any different than other years.

[sales guy]

I love that the Cavs are at .400 right now. If LBJ hadn't done a 57 point game, they would've lost that one too.

The Warriors are tied for 3rd overall. 1st in theirs. Celtics! WOW! I guess Kyrie can handle a team. Good on him.

Warriors play tonight on League Pass tonight at Oracle. Should be fun to watch.