Anti-Helmet tendency from cycling advocates?

[benb]

I was not aware this was a thing but was listening to something earlier today and I'm kind of amazed by this whole thing.

The logic seems to be:

- Cycling is perfectly safe in Europe
- They don't wear helmets
- They have more bike lanes
- Bike lanes are why it's safe
- If we build bike lanes we don't need helmets
- Helmets make cyclists reckless.
- John Forester is still the devil and everything wrong with US cycling is his fault
- We city cyclists are much smarter than athletic cyclists.

Is any of this actually true? The Netherlands is held up as the cycling utopia. However they had 291 cycling deaths to the US 1100 last year from what I can tell. They apparently cycle about 20x more per person than we do, but we have 20x more people. Which means all their infrastructure makes it about 3x safer.

I just finished reading Grant Peterson's book, maybe that's why I'm running into this stuff.

And I'm bored cause I got a saddle sore from riding without bike shorts. Maybe those bike shorts aren't so bad after all.

I can still never get past that people fall over at a stop and get TBIs without helmets.

[dgauthier]

I remember, long ago, passing a group of "recreational" cyclists on a quiet multi-use paved trail. They were off their bikes and gathered over an adult male lying on the asphalt. I asked if they needed help but they had already called 911.

The adult male had no helmet. He had a huge "goose egg" bump on his forehead. His eyes were open, but neither his eyes nor any other part of him was moving.

Seeing someone with unmoving, open eyes was genuinely disturbing. He looked dead.

I don't care what they do in the Netherlands or anywhere else, pavement is pavement whether it's on a bike path or bike lane or whatever you like. If you tumble off your bike and hit your head on pavement without a helmet, you're in trouble.

Originally Posted by benb

(...) However they had 291 cycling deaths to the US 1100 last year from what I can tell. (...)

Pure numbers won't tell you anything. One would need to calculate total deaths per total miles cycled. I'll bet the driving public is more cyclist aware in the Netherlands, though, which would be a good thing.

[EB]

Yes, this is a thing. Grant Peterson and Bike Snob NYC amongst them.

I'm sympathetic to this view.

But I do wear a helmet myself for most of my rides.

However, most of my rides are mountain bike and gravel rides, where the kind of low-speed falls where head strikes are most common happen fairly often.

Bit this advice also has nothing to do with high speed road racing or pack riding. It is strictly about the kind of riding ordinary folks do doing ordinary things, going from place to place.

In that kind of riding, your biggest risk is absolutely being hit by a car. In that scenario, the helmet is nearly useless.

Unfortunately, I have a small experimental dataset on this - in the 7 times I have been hit by a car at speed while riding in my life, 0 times did my helmet do anything at all. In 2 of those instances, I broke major bones - tib/fib in one, and scapula in another. In the case of the tib/fib, I wasn't even wearing a helmet.

Yet helmets are held up as a kind of totem both to absolve drivers - we all know the refrain, was the biker wearing a helmet?!! - and to absolve cities and towns from building adequate and safe bicycle infrastructure.

Which by the way - since you mentioned Europe - the Dutch have such infrastructure in spades.

There is also some limited research that shows that helmeted riders are *more* likely to be in a collision with a car, because drivers will behave with less caution around riders wearing helmets. I tend to suspect there's some correlation vs. causation issues with this research.

[EB]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

I don't care what they do in the Netherlands or anywhere else, pavement is pavement whether it's on a bike path or bike lane or whatever you like. If you tumble off your bike and hit your head on pavement without a helmet, you're in trouble.

You said you don't care what they do in the Netherlands, but the outcomes are interesting. Despite having a lot less cycling in the USA, the rate of death per mile traveled for cyclists is four times higher in the United States than it is in the Netherlands.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by EB

Yes, this is a thing. Grant Peterson and Bike Snob NYC amongst them.

I'm sympathetic to this view.

But I do wear a helmet myself for most of my rides.

However, most of my rides are mountain bike and gravel rides, where the kind of low-speed falls where head strikes are most common happen fairly often.

Bit this advice also has nothing to do with high speed road racing or pack riding. It is strictly about the kind of riding ordinary folks do doing ordinary things, going from place to place.

In that kind of riding, your biggest risk is absolutely being hit by a car. In that scenario, the helmet is nearly useless. If people are reluctant to bike because they are afraid of cars, it really is a prisoner's dilemma.

Unfortunately, I have a small experimental dataset on this - in the 7 times I have been hit by a car at speed while riding in my life, 0 times did my helmet do anything at all. In 2 of those instances, I broke major bones - tib/fib in one, and scapula in another. In the case of the tib/fib, I wasn't even wearing a helmet.

Yet helmets are held up as a kind of totem both to absolve drivers - we all know the refrain, was the biker wearing a helmet?!! - and to absolve cities and towns from building adequate and safe bicycle infrastructure.

Which by the way - since you mentioned Europe - the Dutch have such infrastructure in spades.

There is also some limited research that shows that helmeted riders are *more* likely to be in a collision with a car, because drivers will behave with less caution around riders wearing helmets. I tend to suspect there's some correlation vs. causation issues with this research.

^^ Pretty much this.

There is definitely a hysteria over helmets in the US. God forbid you let your kid ride a balance bike in your driveway with no helmet and someone sees you.

The hysteria over helmet use is one thing that perpetuates the view - false by some measures- of cycling as disproportionately inherently dangerous compared to, say driving, and may keep people away from riding. But the more people that use bikes instead of cars the safer the roads are. If people dont bike because they are afraid of all the cars, it really is a prisoner's dilemma.

[572cv]

Just back from an extended stay in France. In a roughly six week period, I recall seeing only one old rider (in period cycling kit ) without a helmet. This includes both road and VTT. Lots of nice helmets available in the LBS, with lower prices than the US.

I don't know about the rest of Europe, but in France, helmets are the predominant approach to cycling.

In my own experience, I survived a tumble over the handlebars a few years ago in which the helmet I was wearing absorbed the shock of hitting the pavement head first. What was the old saying...its all theoretical till someone punches you in the nose ? or something like that.

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by EB

You said you don't care what they do in the Netherlands, but the outcomes are interesting. Despite having a lot less cycling in the USA, the rate of death per mile traveled for cyclists is four times higher in the United States than it is in the Netherlands.

I'd still wear a helmet if I was cycling in the Netherlands.

May I please ask you for a link to the rates you mentioned?

[Mark McM]

Just what I was waiting for!

Another helmet war to distract us from the disc brake wars!

[Peter P.]

It's a different automobile culture and a different cycling culture in the Netherlands. Bicycles are more recognized as a legitimate form of transportation and drivers respect cyclists more, probably because many of those car drivers either currently or in the past used bicycles for transportation.

In the U.S. I believe the typical American views cycling as a recreational activity and drivers feel the roads are for cars, not bicycles. Also, many of our towns and cities are not built to accommodate cycling as transportation. Our houses are too far from shopping, work, etc. to be practical for most people, and employers lack the facilities to accommodate commuters.

[fourflys]

Hmm, interesting questions/points for sure..

I've often seen the narrative that wearing a helmet makes a rider more aggressive, ride less safe, etc.. I don't buy it.. I've been riding for a minute now and I find it hard to believe I would ride any different with or without a helmet.. I don't ride fast and aggressive with a helmet, so..

Having been someone who went over the bars on a bike path and cracked my helmet through, I will always wear one and I will also make any kids I have or are in charge of wear one..

If you don't want to wear one, that's your choice, but don't be an arse about it..

[Likes2ridefar]

From what I’ve consumed in the past, I gather the Dutch have stricter liability laws for interactions between motorists and non motorists and they’ve focused on developing a safer infrastructure. Neither of which is the case in the US.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

From what I’ve consumed in the past, I gather the Dutch have stricter liability laws for interactions between motorists and non motorists

This ^^, I assume is one of the biggest reasons..

I also understand there are HUGE consequences if you are at fault for an accident on the Autobahn and that is believed to be one of the reasons it can function like it does, folks respect the rules and forced accountability.. while we may have rules in the US, the accountability piece is often missing..

[bigbill]

When I was stationed in Sardinia, I often rode without a helmet. For the most part, the Sardi respect cyclists and give them plenty of room. I rode from Gaeta to Monte Casino with my helmet hanging off my bars because it was so hot and pretty much a climb the whole way. I wore it on the way back to the coast.

On the road, it's mostly about mirrors, and the chance I'd get smacked by one. I wear one when riding gravel or on the MTB because the odds say I'll end up on the ground a few times.

My son raced collegiate cycling. He was in a big pileup near Chapel Hill and I was there to see it. The front of his helmet was crushed because he had landed on his chest, but somehow only had a small scratch on the tip of his nose. The big concern was his "second wrist" above the original that eventually required plates and pins at Walter Reed. I took him to the ER and he was screened for a concussion but didn't have one. It's not a big deal to wear a helmet, they aren't the Bell V-1 with the slide up vent of the 80s.

[rwsaunders]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

May I please ask you for a link to the rates you mentioned?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ad-fatalities/

[EB]

Originally Posted by rwsaunders

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ad-fatalities/

Raw numbers aren’t useful because there is so much more cycling in the Netherlands than in the US.

This SFist story from 2013 summarizes the data from a OECD report - the original link seems to have linkrotted:

https://sfist.com/2013/12/23/study_s...st_cyclist_bu/