OT: Vintage (or current) Audio part 9: CD/CD-SACD players

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

IM so off with this subject...

Went to check out nad to see what they have now a days (im off, im from the time when they offered CD quality sound recording in cassette tapes), NAD talkd about DAC??? to me DAC is a Digital Analog Convertor/chip but clearly is not that, what do the DAC means?

A DAC is a Digital Analog Convertor as you stated.

Often it was just a chip as you say that was part of a CD player.

A quality DAC however is generally a standalone unit, so while my Bel Canto CD2 has a DAC in it, the separate Bel Canto DAC3 that I run is far superior.

A standalone DAC will have multiple inputs that will allow you to connect a CD player, a streaming device etc.

[einreb]

I was looking for a CD player to pair with a 'vintage' Marantz receiver and ended up with a used vgc Marantz CD-5000.

In doing a little research stumble on this link below. I'm not an audio guy but appreciated his enthusiasm for that model. (I just think it looks nice )

http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/...rantz5000.html

[ultraman6970]

Well with the years chipsets gets better and cheaper. It is interesting what are they doing now a days, a separate unit with the DAC... so is more like a pre-sound processor or what we used to call a pre amplifier back in the day? clean the audio before sending it out type of thing?

Interesting to see nad w/o CD players and stuff... well nobody uses cd's anymore IMO, havent play one in my cars in centuries, not even tallk about cassettes, which are dead since maybe 2002?

I do not have a stereo at home, and since years i been thinking in putting one together with old high end used stuff from CL, but not time to even sit to listen stuff. Kids and the rugrats take over the tv and the time to do those things, spacewise my wife would complain she never had a "stereo" ether and she was find with a small CD player boom box. which my kids have and dont even bother using it. Even if you go to best buy stereos are more of an old guy thing... kids from what ive noticed arent into those things at all.

Originally Posted by kingpin75s

A DAC is a Digital Analog Convertor as you stated.

Often it was just a chip as you say that was part of a CD player.

A quality DAC however is generally a standalone unit, so while my Bel Canto CD2 has a DAC in it, the separate Bel Canto DAC3 that I run is far superior.

A standalone DAC will have multiple inputs that will allow you to connect a CD player, a streaming device etc.

[William]

Originally Posted by kingpin75s

For CD players, anything with the discontinued Phillips CD Pro 2 transport is gold:

https://encosystems.net/product/philips-cd-pro-2/

The best in quality and durability in a transport. Originally made for juke boxes etc.

There is a refurbished Phillips CD880 locally that I was eyeballing. Seems to have very positive reviews.






W.

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

Well with the years chipsets gets better and cheaper. It is interesting what are they doing now a days, a separate unit with the DAC... so is more like a pre-sound processor or what we used to call a pre amplifier back in the day? clean the audio before sending it out type of thing?

Separation vs. consolidation is the key here and a standalone DAC is not implicitly a pre, however they often are a pre as well. A DAC still can be just a DAC that is not embedded in a CD player (as example) because a CD is just one digital source and you may want to stream as well as play CDs through your good DAC vs. each source piece providing its own mediocre DAC in the chain.

My Bel Canto DAC3 is technically a DAC and a Digital Pre-amp but I run it in fixed output so it effectively skips it's preamp functionality and passes the signal in full and undisturbed to my pre-amp. Other friends I have run their DAC3 as their Preamp and run both digital and analog through it (yes, converting analog to digital and back to analog).

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by William

There is a refurbished Phillips CD880 locally that I was eyeballing. Seems to have very positive reviews.

W.

Reviews look pretty solid on that one.

The real concern with buying any of these old CD players is what do you do when the CD transport has issues or dies. You are often left with a paper weight.

That is the one plus of the Phillips CD Pro2 transport based models. They are so overbuilt since they were originally built for juke boxes so they are one of the most likely models to continue to work for a long time if you invest.

My recommendation generally is either commit to a Phillips CD Pro2 based CD player if you are looking for top quality for the long haul - OR - go inexpensive and replaceable as these things do die.

Note: There are other great transports made, but typically on just a couple really high end brands so not as accessible as the Phillips CD Pro2 which was built into a number of brands. I think Audio Research actually bought out the bulk of the Phillips CD Pro2 stock when discontinued so they could continue to produce their CD players with the transport beyond discontinuation.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by ScottW

In my main system I have my dad's old Philips LHH 500, which had an early 1990s differential implementation of a bitstream DAC with 6 dB lower noise floor. Kind of unique. Has a Philips CDM transport inside a heavy-ass chassis (weighs 35-40 lbs.) with single-ended and balanced analog outs plus coax/SPDIF and Toslink digital outs, built like a tank and fairly reliable, occasionally needs new belts but otherwise keeps on ticking. I've replaced some power supply caps due to age, also socketed the op-amps and yanked the stock 5534s in favor of some [sadly discontinued] LME49990s. Some other things I could do to it (modern low jitter clock replacement) but it sounds pretty darn good as is.

Also have a Sony CDP 750 (TDA1541 DAC) that I've modded a good bit. It sits in the living room system.

There are plenty of cheap CD players in thrift shops. They are garbage for the most part, but you may occasionally run across one with a decent older multibit DAC that's worth picking up. Otherwise, audio classifieds should have plenty of options as people continue to abandon discs and adopt ripping and/or streaming services. Anything with a good DAC (be it Wolfson, Burr Brown PCM series, Philips TDA series, whatever) mated to a transport that isn't reputed to be a ticking time bomb should do the job.

SACD... le sigh. I bought one of the Philips SACD 1000 players on closeout in the early 2000s, the ones that had the self-destructing Furore chips that would inevitably turn approximately 100% of them into boat anchors. Mine was repaired once by the factory, and still has some life in it, but it sits packed away in a closet until I can implement some of the power supply improvements that supposedly eliminate some offending oscillations. I might die before I get around to that, because today I have DSD-capable DACs and the ability to rip SACDs. I doubt if I'll bother with another dedicated SACD spinner for the limited number of discs I have in that format.

Nowadays I have most of my CDs & all of my SACDs ripped to FLAC or DSD and just send them to a DAC using Foobar software. With the app on my phone to control Foobar, I don't have to get up to "swap discs." Today I would not spend serious money on a disc spinner. I'd put it into a quality modern standalone DAC, or upgrading my turntable or preamp, or bike stuff, or...

Good advice. Quoting for my own selfish use.

[jlwdm]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

Well with the years chipsets gets better and cheaper. It is interesting what are they doing now a days, a separate unit with the DAC...

...

Separate DACs have been around for a long, long time. Originally in higher end systems.

Jeff

[daker13]

Originally Posted by kingpin75s

The real concern with buying any of these old CD players is what do you do when the CD transport has issues or dies. You are often left with a paper weight.

x1000.

The transport on cd players is such a weak link. I've had a few nice sounding ones, but it's so frustrating when the transport goes. I had one of those Philips SACD 1000 and that thing has got to be the audio heartbreak of the last 20 years: sell them cheap, then the transport craps out after 2 months. At least I got my $400 back...

It blows my mind that my old Mac laptop read cd's flawlessly for 8 years (on top of everything else it did), and I've had five cd players die in that same period. (In fairness, I just replaced the drive belt on a Cambridge cd player that I thought was gonzo, it's been working fine and it was surprisingly easy...) Say what you will about turntables (btw you should not have surface noise if your cartridge is aligned and the record is clean), it's a simple mechanism and they work so flawlessly compared to a highly complicated, plastic cd drive. Don't expect much from gears made of plastic.

I recently bought a Tascam 200 cd player, which is a professional model. It's on sale from Amazon, pretty burly with a nice metal cd drive, and I'm using it as a transport. From here on in I'm going to put the money in the DAC and stop expecting a decent transport on a commercial cd player for under $2k.

[ScottW]

Some of you may find this useful... list of CD player models and the DAC & filter chips and transports used in each.
http://vasiltech.narod.ru/CD-Player-DAC-Transport.htm

[dookie]

I've got a Cal Audio changer gathering dust over here. Built like a tank. Original remote. PM if you might be interested...

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by ScottW

Some of you may find this useful... list of CD player models and the DAC & filter chips and transports used in each.
http://vasiltech.narod.ru/CD-Player-DAC-Transport.htm

Really good reference.

I used this list a couple of years ago when I was looking for my Bel Canto CD2 and needed a list of alternative options leveraging the same transport if my preferred choice did not work out.